bczee

iTrader: (12)

Good going.... keep us posted now that you should be able to move forward now.

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

A couple of updates for those of you who care....and for hopefully the new LS-x A-body swap sticky....

I ended up switching to a F-body accessory drive setup as I scored all the brackets, bolts and the A/C compressor for $100. I couldn't say no. I still need a F-body alternator and crank pulley. I bought a complete pump assembly for $130 shipped.

The truck alternator oddly enough does fit into the F-body bracket, however, the truck bracket has threads in the back of it that the bolts go through and that's how it fastens. The F-body bracket has no back piece, so even though the truck alternator physically fits inside the bracket, it doesn't bolt in.

I also just scored an alternator relocation set up that will place the alternator on the top of the passenger side head and the tensioner that resided on the water pump to where the alternator used to be. That should free up some room between the steering box, frame, and block. I hope......

To solve the ATS/center link clearance problem, I had a machine shop make me up 1/2 spacers that were cut out in the same shape as the frame mounts. I tacked the mounts to the spacers and as of right now, the centerlink clears the pan!

I haven't finished mocking everything up completely yet, as I'm still waiting on the other stuff I mentioned earlier. But, like I said, right now it works.

That's a $20 fix instead of $600+ for the ATS pan that supposedly clears everything (haven't talked to anyone who'd done/used it yet) and $400 (estimate, I have $230 into it right now) instead of $3000 for the ATS accessory drive....

While all the rich dudes will whine about how much the car is "hacked" and how far off my "driveline angle" will be, I submit to all of you that any motor that's ever been installed in any car has had to clear the centerlink (I'm not a bright man, but someting tells me that had to happen.....) and last time I checked the driveline angles of those engines all seemed to be OK......

So they can all blome.

real82it

i am getting ready to do this swap on a 71 cutlass.....reading this it almost makes me want to just build the 455 I have and put that in..........or buy a F body engine/accessory set up rather than the 6.0 truck engine.......at this point I am surprised someone is not making parts for A bodies that make this swap easier.

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

Its not hard at all. Just time consuming. If it were a bolt in deal, you know how many cars would have these engines? Thousands....

I would start with the mounts that Bczee used instead of the ATS mounts. Other that that, you can use the truck acessories if you want. I just chose not to...


By the time I'm done, I could put together a kit easily. I just don't have time right now.

classic gary

I don't want to start a flame war but, IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. You young guys that need everything to bolt together are at a serious disadvantage. Special "A" body swap parts are not needed to do this. It's NO harder than putting a big block in a 6 cylinder car. I'm doing it to a '66, the firewall is closer to the front crossmember on the '67 and older cars. We have LESS room to do this, and it STILL ain't hard. Don't use one man's experience as the yardstick and think it's to tuff to do.

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

Its much more involved than swapping a BB for a 6 banger, but whatever...

classic gary

maybe, but you have to change the fuel line from 6 to BB, the front coil springs to at least SB, brakes should be changed, the stock 10 bolt should be changed to atleast a 12 bolt, ALL the same stuff that needs to be changed, Gen 1 engine to a LSx. I still say it ain't that tuff. Not to mention the motor mounts, radiator, some electrical, (if using a carbed LSx).

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

You don't have to touch the rear, especially if its a 8.5" 10 bolt... Brakes have nothing to do with this swap.


Fuel lines, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, relays, entire wiring harness from the firewall forward including for EFI, A/C stuff, power steering lines and box, radiator, header fitment, converting or going back and forth between SAE and metric bolts... And about one million other little details that I can't remember here that will make the car run right.


I can tell you talk more than you have done swaps of this nature. You're taking something that was designed today and converting it to work in something that was designed 40 years ago. Different sizes and specs, different production tolerances and specs, different procedures from assembly plant to assembly plant even.

Its not brain surgery, but it's not a bolt in deal either.


When you do one, and do it right with all the power options working and EFI, let us know. Untill then, please stop showing your ignorance.

classic gary

hmm, I AM doing a swap right now. P/S, 2002 Alternator, TKO 500, mechanical clutch linkage, lets see, what else, oh yeah, real brakes, because the drums on the car now are not gonna stop it if this car lives up to it's potential. Not part of a swap? Yeah. No, i'm not going EFI right now. But i've done it before. It still ain't that tuff. So pat yourself on the back for doing yours. Throw some more money at it. Oh and if these engines are so different in the tollerances, then maybe my 1957 cast iron bellhousing shouldn't fit. But it does. The ONE BIG problem I've got is headers, so I'm gonna make my own. It STILL ain't that tuff. Don't be discouraged by some of the complications, it can be done, it has been done, and somebody here has done it.

ryanvv355

iTrader: (17)

Just out of curiosity why are you running a carb up in ABQ, this state IS the reason i went to EFI! Could never get my carb right.

classic gary

yes, but tuning in this thin air (5000 ft) is a bit if a "challenge". We usually drop 2-3 jet sizes on ANY carb even before we bolt it on for the first time. Vacuum is usually only about two thirds of what it would be at sea level. So the power valve has to be changed most of the time, (depends on the engine size/ cam size). Yes, carbs will seperate men from boys. (not sayin' I'm a man, but I do have hair on my chinny chin chin.)

ryanvv355

iTrader: (17)

I jetted mine down 2 sizes but left the power valve alone, I was messing around with squirters and accel pump cams alot and could never get a part throttle lean stumble to go away, im at 4600ft here in Clovis and i miss sea level. I think the magancharger will take care of air density issues for now on the 6.0

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

Three questions for ya Gary, since I looked at your "website" the other day.


1. I noticed your frame mounts look to be from a 4wd vehicle of some sort. Only problem is, at about 350ftlbs they're going to twist like pretzles. So my first question is, Does Daiwoo make a 4wd vehicle?

2. Since 40% of your front end weight is above or level with your upper ball joints the way the motor sits now, your car will take on the handling and braking characteristics of a tank. Probably worse than when it was stock. Is that why you included a brake upgrade? My old 70' stopped withy 4 wheel drums, even running 10.60's....

3. Why aren't you using EFI and the hydraulic clutch/6 speed trans if its so easy? Seems to me for the power that thing makes and since you're converting back into a 40+ year old dinosaur with a POS carb, you could have just bought something out of a mid 80's blazer and save d a few thousand dollars...



Thanks for the laughs.

classic gary

Lets see, should I have fun with this, or just call it a day. Oh ****, I'm gonna have some fun!!!
Well, the motor mounts you speak of are MOROSO steel solid replacements used in thousands of drag/circle/autocross/ect. type cars for over 30 years. Hmm, yup, they're no good.
My "website" as you call it is no more than a place to put pictures. A real "website" is in the future.
I'm using the TKO500 instead of a M6 because I bought it, and it fits and the LSx I bought did not come with a M6. Why use a hydraulic clutch? The mechanical linkage will work just fine.
Why did you whimp out and go 4L60E ?
This thing is gonna be a driver. NOT a race car. One stop at the top of a quarter mile does not equal good brakes. I'm gonna drive mine NOT trailer it.
I guess you've not had any clearance problems with your drag link, you know the bar sort of thing that connects the tierods in front of the crossmember. I raised the engine enough to clear it so I can steer it around corners. A custom oilpan is not...well, I can think of other places to use the money. Are we done yet ?
You know I only said "it ain't that tuff" so the guy above might think about swapping a LSx instead of building a 455, that's tuff enough.
I guess I ruffled some feathers. But this IS kinda fun !!

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

I know you claim you're haiving fun, but really....


If I had bought what you're using for mounts, I'd throw them away and make my own... But I guess they just "bolted in" right? Wait a minute.....Didn't you say these "kids" shouldn't want everything to just bolt in? Same with the trans right?????

Why use a hydraulic clutch? I guess the GM engineers don't think the mechanical linkage works that great....But again, we all know you took the EASY way out, right? LOL

I went with the auto trans because I live in Massachusetts. If I have to explain it more than that, well, I guess I'm just wasting my time...

I drove my old car even when it ran 10.09 on the street.... So please stop the BS..

You raised the engine enough to clear large boulders.... Its pretty embarassing...

I'm not using a custom oil pan either. Just in case you missed that (and you obviously did)...

Are we done? You never even got started....

classic gary

Waist your time some more, what does Massachusetts and auto trans got to do with each other ? Mass. doesn't allow stick trannies ?
And GM went to hyd. clutch actuation because of interior noise considerations. And they are easier to assemble on the assembly line. Cost/noise reduction.
And my way might not be the easy way out. Just another way to get to the same place.
Options, it's all about options.
Lets go have a soda.................

I'm driving to Mass. for a family reunion in July next year, around Hadley/Amhearst, see ya.....................

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

Your option just happened to be the easiest way out you could take. Take a brand new motor with all kinds of technology and strip it back 40 years technolgy-wise.... Perhaps before you run your mouth about how "kids" shouldn't expect everything to just bolt together you should try using a setup that doesn't do what you're preaching against...


And as far as seeing me later, no, you won't....

ls1_chevelle

iTrader: (9)

You sure took the hard road to get it in! Mine was bad, but not nearly that bad.

Just used BRP mounts, dished the firewall for the intake(I know you didn't want to do that), and made a new tranny tunnel.

It was big (physically with engine/4l80e) going in, but it went in.

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

Well, yeah, the ATS mounts threw me a curve ball, that's for sure. It was a easy enough fix once I got to the machine shop. As far as the F-body accessories, I didn't have to do that, but between that and the alternator relocator kit that's on the way, I sure am glad I did.

Once that stuff is done, I should have plenty of room for everything.

The notching was once again my choice and probably took 3 hours of total time. That's just spread out over two weeks for me.


Thanks to your header tip in the other post, I'll be looking for a set of long tubes on the cheap and then if I have to make them fit, I will.


My firewall and trans tunnel are as stock.

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

Well, I finally got down to the garage last night with the intention of installing my alternator relocation kit, beveling the frame mount spacers in preparation for welding to the frame, and then to start to replace the front suspension pieces with the SC&C parts for final mockup before making everything permanent.


Sounds like a good plan, huh?


So I left the alternator kit at home. That was strike one.


I did get the spacers beveled. Whohoo! I took pics of one side to show everyone what I did.

I managed to get the passenger side front suspension off without a pickle fork. I adjusted the new SC&C arms and got ready to install them along with the new C5 spindles. I was thinking how cool it was gonna look taking a pic of the front end with the C6 wheel on it from the side.

Then I noticed that the cross shaft holes in the arms were way wider than the holes in my frame!


I must have gotten the wrong UCA's. So I have a PM in to ATS to see what the deal is.

Uphill fight the whole way!