Dude, that would be a huge favor to the f-body convertible crowd!! He does have a vert right? Cause from what I hear there are many differences. Just wanted to make sure so you wouldn't waste your time either if he didn't.

If it's not too much to ask, since you'd be under there anyways, could you get the angles in the pieces that extend out to the center and the dimensions (width and thickness) of the materials if possible too. That would be a tremendous help as well. Thank you so much.

Oh and I sent an email to Kenny Brown. From what I saw on the website he is getting better, but I'm not sure if or when production of parts will resume. I asked for any information they could share about the DD SFC's. So everyone cross your fingers that that will turn something up too.

Nick

 

Yeah his is indeed a vert. I will try and meet up with him sometime this week and ill bring my protractor, tape measure, and calipers with me. ive been wanting these for a loooong time aswel.

 

Awesome man. That should be enough to get them made. Hopefully these happen one way or another for all the people that want them.

 

any weld in sub frame connectors will do the job. some people get bolt ons and weld them. im happy with my BMR's. without sfc's if i hit a bump my car would kinda rock like a boat. also they should help a bit with sqeaks n rattles.

 

subscribed

 

Just wanted to let you all know that i have not forgotten about this. Im supposed to be meeting up and taking the measurements this week. Sorry its been a while im in the middle of an engine rebuild. I have not forgotten.

 

Someone might want to make sure that KB does not have a patent on that design.

 

No worries man, whenever you have time to do it. You're not getting paid to do it so nobody can reasonably expect you to do it within a certain period of time. Just know that it is appreciated!!

I have sent them an email requesting that information and if they would be willing to share anything, but I have not received a response from them as of yet. I will be sure to let everyone know if they ever send me anything. I'm not sure where I could look on my own to see if there is one.

 

Hey guys. I'm the one with the KBDD's. I'm going to see if I can set aside some free time to meet up with John sometime this week to take some measurements/pics...kinda busy right now though.
Like someone mentioned, I'd bet there is a patent on this design seeing as no one has tried to copy them yet though that's not really a problem unless someone wants to sell them.
Sucks that us vert guys are so often overlooked by the aftermarket.

 

So I got the number of a Kenny Brown rep and spoke with her. They do have a patent on them, but she gave a couple of options to work with. Obviously if someone were to copy them and make a set for themselves and nothing more than a friend or two as well, you don't need to worry about infringement and all that. When you start producing them and selling them to people you don't know over the internet to make a little profit is when you have a problem.

She said that they are trying to work everything back into production. They are starting with the mustang items, the new mustang, and then the last gen. After that they will be moving on to items for camaros, both new and 4th gen, and also fox body mustangs. She told me that if there is a group that can verify orders for 10 or more, they can try to move that certain item up a little sooner in their production plans. Obviously this comes with very little guarantee of timing.

The second option that she gave was a licensing agreement with whoever wishes to produce them. This is something where they would have to inspect the manufacturing facility and the final product. This is so that they can insure that it is not someone making them in their garage, and the product is worthy of the KBDD name, and they would issue serial numbers for the production run that they would produce. This would require a percentage of the profits/sale price to go to Kenny Brown Company.

Devil's Mentor - I forget, did you say your buddy had a company that did this type of stuff? If so I can give you the contact information for the rep from Kenny Brown that I talked to. He can try to work out the licensing agreement if he would like to.

Of course, if the design is replicated and changed a little bit, I'm not sure what, if any of this information remains pertinent. Also, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, so do not rely on my opinions or interpretations on any of this as it relates to licensing agreements, patents, etc.

If there is a group of guys (and gals) that would like to pursue the option of trying to bump up the production of these, then we can get you together, and in touch with the rep that I spoke with and see where it goes from there. Again, with this option there was no guarantee of timing, just a promise to try to move them further up in their production plans.

If there is anything I missed, you can respond here with a question, or pm me if you would like to. I can send more questions to the rep that I spoke with too if you would like more info. This all came from about a 5-10 minute conversation over the phone.

Thank you all,
Nick

 

MIZ28Vert,

Great foot work man! As for my buddy, yes he works for a company that could build these, but I am not too sure what it would take to get them built THROUGH his employer. Now as for his (my buddy) patented Lambo hinge system, they were assembled by him, but laser cut and machined via an assortment of machine shops in his area.

I was just going to have him review the pics, or whatever medium we can get, and draw up some cad deigns and create from there - on his own time. HE would be the one producing the item, NOT his employer, so I am sure that would not be something KB would be interested in regardless of how well made they would be.

I will ask him as to what it would take to get his employer on board so that it would satisfy KB needs.


DM

 

Here is a little help:
Once the design, build and fitment of a single prototype sub-frame connector is done, the designer can then ship out other prototypes for fitment and clearance to other Fbody vert drivers for testing.
Just pay an overinflated shipping cost.
Thereby not making a profit on the design or manufacture of the part but rather R&D for future enhancements.

 

Aren't the undersides of the lt1 and ls1 different? I remember when my inlaw and i were doing my ls1 swap in my 95 Z when we tried to bolt up the M6 trans crossmember we had to weld in a piece off an ls1 to my 95 Z so it could bolt up. Now if they get the measurements from a 97 convertible, will they bolt up to the 98 n up convertibles? Will it being an A4 or a M6 make a difference? Just throwing that out there...

 

From the last few times I've seen a set of the KB double diamonds, they were for all 93-02 Fbody Verts.
UMI has a diamond style 3 point SFC for hardtops and Ttops for all 93-02 Fbodies...so you can make an assumption that the underbody carriage did not change enough to redesign any of the subframes currently on the market.
Once again...an assumption. Another good reason to ship out the design for test fittings across the USA.

 

Lets do this!!!! Those would be alot better than the umi or brms kits, and I hate saying that, because I like both companys, but someone needs to come to the table with something like this, and make it happen.. +1 for a set right here.

 

So, how many people are down for the kenny brown SFC's? 1 right here.

 

I actually have nice pictures of the KBDD convertible subframes... Someone sent them to me last year when I was interested in buying a set used (ie, never installed)...

Let me know if there is any interest in posting them...

Personally, what I would be MUCH more interested in, is someone designing a custom center crossmember that replaces the stock g-load brace, but extends out to connect to the front/rear bolt points of the UMI weld-in convertible subframes (yeah, I prefer to bolt them in, in case I need to remove them for any reason), as well as somehow connecting to the two big weld-plates per side. I can draw a diagram of what I figure would be the ultimate under-carriage strengthening setup.. Hell, I wouldn't mind having something like that you could weld onto the subframes once it was in place... Key point is, it needs to tie not only the subframes to the crossbrace (as well as making the crossbrace much bigger, stiffer and wider), but also have arms to connect up to the tranny mount points that triangulate them to the crossbrace as well (which is a packaging nightmare due to longtubes and y-pipes)...

I am actually thinking of taking my car to a local high-end fab place and seeing if they can build me what I am looking for... It would have to be engineered properly, but if done well should afford for a complete stiffening of the undercarriage...

 

I may add the entire thing NEEDS to be removeable in case you need to pull the transmission.

The ONLY reason I prefer bolt in subframes is because unless you route the fuel lines if you weld the subframes in you cannot remove the nylon lines they run in front by the drivers door underneath if they are welded in... Plus, the bolting methodology used is a really solid connection compared to the majority of other bolt-in designs...

 

can anyone describe which way these cars are flexing? folding in the middle, or twisting? just want to understand what system would be best.

 

I went ahead and bought mine from Don Goetz since he's local to me.

They made a big difference in the way the convertible drives and handles.

Wish I had done this a long time ago.