LG Motorsports

We will be getting the first 3 sets of our Staniless steel headers this week. These will still be pre production versions.

We have decided to make "bolt on" cats and off road pipes available to make life easier. and eliminate the need for welding.

When comparing Long Tube headers, find out how long the Primary tubes are. If they are shorter than 25" they are NOT true Long Tubes. The correct primary length for an LS1 engine is 32"(+or- one inch). Any thing shorter, like the TPIS, FLP, Breathless, etc are "Mid" length, and they all have 19" primary tubes. They will not release the full performance of the LS1.

As soon as we fit these headers, and check for Quality. We will release the full production sets. We look forward to getting the LG headers
to market within the nest 2 to 3 weeks.

Thanks for your time.

Lou Gigliotti LG Motorsports

blu00rdstr

Why do manufacturers go for long tube headers rather than a tri-y design? It would seem the tri-y design is tuned better for the street, and uses less pipe.

Also, when do headers make sense? On a stock engine, or only after a certain number of mods? A 10-20hp improvement for $1,000 doesn't seem like the best bang for the buck if the engine doesn't need them.

Godspeed

Here are the gains on a stock motor.



-Jeremy

66ImpalaLT1

[quote]Originally posted by C5_inSiliconVly_v1.0:
<strong>Why do manufacturers go for long tube headers rather than a tri-y design? It would seem the tri-y design is tuned better for the street, and uses less pipe.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not going to debate the merits of a tri-y header vs equal length, but I will say that the Belanger Tri-Y's for the C5 have a problem with their O2 placement, each sensor is only exposed to 2 cylinders, which is just asking for problems.

Eric

WhiteDiamond

LG Motorsports,

If you could take a moment, could you see my post in the LS1/LS6 engine tech section about headers and primary tube length? I am very curious as to how this length is determined and what other aspects of the total engine "package" affect the length.

Todd

blu00rdstr

Hmm, 25ft/lbs of torque increase looks nice. The 12hp increase...probably would be more with other mods.

Makes me wonder how torque increase affects 1/4 mile, vs. hp increase.

WhiteDiamond

C5_insilicon,

The idea is not the max hp and tq increases. You can accomplish the numbers the LG units made with other headers out there, AT PEAK. The interesting point of the LG headers is the mid range gains, which are awesome. The dynos I have of TPIS, B&B(shorties, I know), and TTS don't show the gains in the midrange like these LGs do.

Typically, if you increase the HP of your set up, your trap speed will increase in the 1/4 mile. As well, if you increase torque, typically your elapsed time will drop. This can be highly driver and weather dependant, but assuming ideal conditions and equal driving ability on each run.

Also, the area under the curve is extremely important and that is what makes the LGs look sooooo good right now. Because of the massive increase in mid range, the area under the curve receives a major bump and should produce noticable gains in performance, especially on the street where you are usually in those mid range rpms values.

Todd

blu00rdstr

BLK 98WS6,

You're right. These shouldn't be advertised by peak numbers, the smooth curves are very nice. So is the RPM range where they add the most torque. I've seen lots of folk buy headers that were too large, and the gains were all top end.

The question about tri-Ys was about street performance, since it's a good design for the mid-range. These also seem to target that range. From what I've seen 4-1 headers seem to target higher rpms, not drivability.

As far as gains go, I'm still interested in bang/buck investments, and after what mods headers really boost power.

HouseofSpeed

Header primary diameters and tube length are mathematical calculations based on target rpm....much like those calculations involved in intake runner length manipulation.

The concept is pulse tuning....not sure why LG thinks that there is "only" one primary length for the LS1....that would really be dependant on where the engine in question makes power...and a 346 is likely to not follow the power curve of a 408/422/427.

'98 Six Speed

[quote]Originally posted by HouseofSpeed:
<strong>Header primary diameters and tube length are mathematical calculations based on target rpm....much like those calculations involved in intake runner length manipulation.

The concept is pulse tuning....not sure why LG thinks that there is "only" one primary length for the LS1....that would really be dependant on where the engine in question makes power...and a 346 is likely to not follow the power curve of a 408/422/427.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So, your point is that his header will only work well on his engine?

two more questions - (1) Can you post the math you speak of, and (2) what is your optimum design for street headers that run through cats

LT1GMC

I've been looking at headers since getting my Z06 last summer, and I did think that the ones offered up to now seemed kinda short to be called "long tubes". If these are 32" and fit the car without serious mods or compromises, I do want a set. E-mail me when available, Thanks Steve LT1GMC@aol.com

Ram Air Tony

iTrader: (2)

[quote]Originally posted by HouseofSpeed:
<strong>Header primary diameters and tube length are mathematical calculations based on target rpm....much like those calculations involved in intake runner length manipulation.

The concept is pulse tuning....not sure why LG thinks that there is "only" one primary length for the LS1....that would really be dependant on where the engine in question makes power...and a 346 is likely to not follow the power curve of a 408/422/427.</strong><hr></blockquote>

it made a HUGE difference on Lou's 7 liter G7 car....he gained 20 hp OVER TPIS .... on Godspeeds stock car it gave good gains and we will see on a H/C car soon <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> ...

thanks

R
A
T

Louis

iTrader: (7)

Lou Gigliotti sr. here.

I don't think that there is only 1 primary length that will work on the LS1, Chevrolet does.

Chevy paid for some testing on the LS1 engine for road racing, and they came up with 32" as the best length.

You say, "well that is just road racing". But remember, road racing is all about acceleration between corners. It is just the same as acceleration on a drag strip.

What I do know is that the short 18-19" of the TPIS , TTS and Belanger is not correct. We are going to test the Belangers against our LT headers this week. We will keep you posted.

The car is a head and cam car, with Belanger tri Y headers on it. The torque numberss are great, but the power number is down. I think the TPIS would get the power numbers back, but at the expense of low end torque. I also believe that our LG long tubes will get the power back, without hurting the low end torque.

We will let you know.


Lou Gigliotti LGM (not Louis)

'98 Six Speed

[quote]Originally posted by G2 LS1:
<strong>Lou Gigliotti sr. here.

I don't think that there is only 1 primary length that will work on the LS1, Chevrolet does.

Chevy paid for some testing on the LS1 engine for road racing, and they came up with 32" as the best length.

You say, "well that is just road racing". But remember, road racing is all about acceleration between corners. It is just the same as acceleration on a drag strip.

What I do know is that the short 18-19" of the TPIS , TTS and Belanger is not correct. We are going to test the Belangers against our LT headers this week. We will keep you posted.

The car is a head and cam car, with Belanger tri Y headers on it. The torque numberss are great, but the power number is down. I think the TPIS would get the power numbers back, but at the expense of low end torque. I also believe that our LG long tubes will get the power back, without hurting the low end torque.

We will let you know.


Lou Gigliotti LGM (not Louis)</strong><hr></blockquote>


Lou, I'll be dumping my leaky *** TPIS for your headers. I need to run cats, though. Will they fit in the tunnel?

Louis

iTrader: (7)

Yes, we will have bullit random cats, that will just fit in the tunnel. We will also have "V" clamps, like we use on the race car, to attach them, so you can put an off road pipe in their place for the track.

Lou Gigliotti sr LG Motorsports

ToplessTexan

Lou (not Louis <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> ) you have email re a TTS comparison.

HouseofSpeed

98 six speed.....I'll email you the math behind the magic.

Lou, not doubting that your headers are nice pieces....in fact, I would welcome something other than the current offerings. Although, as much as I don't care for the Belangers, they are helping a couple of my cars make mid 440 WHP and 420 WTQ (heads and cam, stock bottom end).

I really think that there are some gains in tube length manipulation...but there seems to be a lot left in terms of collector design for the current headers on the market. Are you using a Burns merge? Are you using a merge at all? Realistically, that is where the cost of a superior component comes into the picture. Cost on some of the collectors out there is over 200 per....and that in turn drives up the cost of the header to the end user.

I am interested in a better mouse trap....keep us updated.

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: HouseofSpeed ]</p>

'98 Six Speed

[quote]Originally posted by HouseofSpeed:
<strong>98 six speed.....I'll email you the math behind the magic.

Lou, not doubting that your headers are nice pieces....in fact, I would welcome something other than the current offerings. Although, as much as I don't care for the Belangers, they are helping a couple of my cars make mid 440 WHP and 420 WTQ (heads and cam, stock bottom end).

I really think that there are some gains in tube length manipulation...but there seems to be a lot left in terms of collector design for the current headers on the market. Are you using a Burns merge? Are you using a merge at all? Realistically, that is where the cost of a superior component comes into the picture. Cost on some of the collectors out there is over 200 per....and that in turn drives up the cost of the header to the end user.

I am interested in a better mouse trap....keep us updated.

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: HouseofSpeed ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks!

Sir Sel

Waiting on the delivery date. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />

Godspeed

They are big pics, but here they are:

http://godspeed.lockeliddell.com/LGM/headers/new1.jpg

http://godspeed.lockeliddell.com/LGM/headers/new2.jpg

http://godspeed.lockeliddell.com/LGM/headers/new3.jpg