vararam CAI
03-05-2006, 09:57 PM
#44
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gr8whiteZ
Aside from filter surface area, what makes it different than a Blackwing or Halltech?
i don't know, but it looks as if it the same size as the halltech stinger ssm
03-06-2006, 01:44 PM
#46
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not trying to beat up this point, but as I understand it, the restriction in the C5 Air intake has never been the air bridge. There are cars making BIG power with the stock air bridge in place and I've never seen one dyno/qtr mile pass that shows switching an air bridge to a larger unit improves anything. The only improvements have come from the intake itself. Maybe I'm wrong?
If this were the case wouldn't adding a better air bridge to a better breathing intake do the trick? Maybe a vararam with big Carbon fiber or BBK bridge? (I cant see how a round air bridge is going to clear the radiator and hood anyway - unless it's really thin)
The reason I'm so curious is - I am about to install a varamam because I thought it was the best and most proven out there. If there is something better I want it. Perhaps a heads up test is in order....
If this were the case wouldn't adding a better air bridge to a better breathing intake do the trick? Maybe a vararam with big Carbon fiber or BBK bridge? (I cant see how a round air bridge is going to clear the radiator and hood anyway - unless it's really thin)
The reason I'm so curious is - I am about to install a varamam because I thought it was the best and most proven out there. If there is something better I want it. Perhaps a heads up test is in order....
03-06-2006, 01:52 PM
#47
Originally Posted by Gr8whiteZ
Not trying to beat up this point, but as I understand it, the restriction in the C5 Air intake has never been the air bridge. There are cars making BIG power with the stock air bridge in place and I've never seen one dyno/qtr mile pass that shows switching an air bridge to a larger unit improves anything. The only improvements have come from the intake itself. Maybe I'm wrong?
If this were the case wouldn't adding a better air bridge to a better breathing intake do the trick? Maybe a vararam with big Carbon fiber or BBK bridge? (I cant see how a round air bridge is going to clear the radiator and hood anyway - unless it's really thin)
The reason I'm so curious is - I am about to install a varamam because I thought it was the best and most proven out there. If there is something better I want it. Perhaps a heads up test is in order....
If this were the case wouldn't adding a better air bridge to a better breathing intake do the trick? Maybe a vararam with big Carbon fiber or BBK bridge? (I cant see how a round air bridge is going to clear the radiator and hood anyway - unless it's really thin)
The reason I'm so curious is - I am about to install a varamam because I thought it was the best and most proven out there. If there is something better I want it. Perhaps a heads up test is in order....
do the vararam dude. It is the best.
An air bridge won't give you more then a couple of hp on the dyno..and maybe..just maybe slighlty crisper throttle response.
You won't be unhappy with the vararam. if you want the complete setup, find yourself an airbridge as well.
03-08-2006, 09:32 AM
#48
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just picked up a Raptor unit. I had a Vararam on before I switched, I picked up 2mph in trap speed but my dyno numbers on an otherwise stock Z with a tune and a Vararam were 364 hp after an hour and a half of taking the Vararam off we ran it again and I picked up between 9-11hp all the way across the RPM band new best of 375hp. I cant wait to get it to the track but driving around you can feel way more throttle response. I will post the dyno numbers when I figure out how the forum stuff works.
03-08-2006, 11:18 AM
#50
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i don't know im not totally sold on the raptor cai yet. it's similar to the halltech stinger ssm. i just switched over from the halltech ssm to the v-ram and picked up 3mph. also the v-ram is not a dyno queen. let me know how the raptor does in the 1/4 which is where the v-ram shines.
03-08-2006, 04:57 PM
#52
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DR.Evil
I just picked up a Raptor unit. I had a Vararam on before I switched, I picked up 2mph in trap speed but my dyno numbers on an otherwise stock Z with a tune and a Vararam were 364 hp after an hour and a half of taking the Vararam off we ran it again and I picked up between 9-11hp all the way across the RPM band new best of 375hp. I cant wait to get it to the track but driving around you can feel way more throttle response. I will post the dyno numbers when I figure out how the forum stuff works.
03-08-2006, 10:02 PM
#54
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy Gr8whiteZ we are not starting WW3...LOL I said the 2mph gain was with the vararam and the 9-11 hp gain was after I installed the Raptor and took off the vararam. I have not run the car in the 1/4 YET!!! I will keep you posted. One of my buddies test his Z with the from bone stock to just the Raptor he picked up .4 and 3mph but it was a smaller unit not the big one. I hope SIZE does matter. By the way Im not saying the vararam is a bad unit but if you can get the same gains or more for less cash and install it in 1/10th the time and not have to crawl on your back its the way to go in my book.
03-08-2006, 11:29 PM
#55
It does amuse me that this argument is still going on. If you want a dyno queen, get a different filter and put a giant fan on the car. If you want real-world/track results get the VaraRam. For the record I picked up 12rwhp on the dyno with my V-Ram, that is with NO fans blowing on the car. I didn't care if it even showed gains because doing a 5th gear (yes start in fifth gear from like 60mph) I pulled on my friends same year stock C5 6 speed.
I will post the two graphs in a sec.
I will post the two graphs in a sec.
03-09-2006, 01:12 AM
#56
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Chandler, Arizona
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm confused after reading all these posts. People actually think the air is moving at 60 mph through the inlet duct? The engine is going to pull the air it needs through the inlet duct, no more. You gain performance with the inlet system three ways:
1) You draw in colder denser air into the engine. If the outside air is 70 degrees and the engine compartment air is 100 degrees, you will increase the density of the air from .071 to .075 lbm/ft3. If you assume you pick up 70% of the ratio, then you would increase a 400 hp engine by 15 hp. That is pretty significant!
2) There is a pressure drop due to the air moving through the filter and the inlet system, so a well designed inlet system and larger filter will lose less pressure than a poorly designed restricted inlet system.
3) The ram air will actually increase the pressure in the duct. The best that the ram effect can be is what is referred to as the stagnation pressure. If the air is flowing at 60 mph and you bring the air to a stop, the pressure will rise by 1/2 times the density of the air times the velocity squared. That assumes you have 100% recovery (probably more like 90% in the real world since you do not bring the air to a complete stop in the inlet tract).
So let's look at 60 mph which is 88 feet/sec. Air density is .075 lbm/ft3 for a sea level standard day. Also, you have to divide by 32.2 to convert pounds mass to pounds force, P = .5 * .075 * 88 * 88 / 32.2 = 9.019 lbm/ft3 which is .063 psi. So a standard day at 14.7 pis becomes 14.763. This is a four tenths of 1 percent increase. Again, if you assume 70% for power increase and a 90% recovery of the stagnation pressure you pick up a whopping 1 hp at 60 mph. Now bring it up to 100 mph and the ram affect will add 3 hp.
Everybody will claim that they can feel the increase at 60 mph. It's just their wishful thinking. I don't know anyone that can 'feel' 1 hp! I don't even know of anyone that can 'feel' 3 hp.
So in my opinion, most of the increase from a good inlet has to be from the COLD inlet, not the ram air affect. However on a Vette, I really doubt if it's picking up very hot air, maybe someone has done some data logging of inlet air temps before and after a new inlet and can comment on this.
1) You draw in colder denser air into the engine. If the outside air is 70 degrees and the engine compartment air is 100 degrees, you will increase the density of the air from .071 to .075 lbm/ft3. If you assume you pick up 70% of the ratio, then you would increase a 400 hp engine by 15 hp. That is pretty significant!
2) There is a pressure drop due to the air moving through the filter and the inlet system, so a well designed inlet system and larger filter will lose less pressure than a poorly designed restricted inlet system.
3) The ram air will actually increase the pressure in the duct. The best that the ram effect can be is what is referred to as the stagnation pressure. If the air is flowing at 60 mph and you bring the air to a stop, the pressure will rise by 1/2 times the density of the air times the velocity squared. That assumes you have 100% recovery (probably more like 90% in the real world since you do not bring the air to a complete stop in the inlet tract).
So let's look at 60 mph which is 88 feet/sec. Air density is .075 lbm/ft3 for a sea level standard day. Also, you have to divide by 32.2 to convert pounds mass to pounds force, P = .5 * .075 * 88 * 88 / 32.2 = 9.019 lbm/ft3 which is .063 psi. So a standard day at 14.7 pis becomes 14.763. This is a four tenths of 1 percent increase. Again, if you assume 70% for power increase and a 90% recovery of the stagnation pressure you pick up a whopping 1 hp at 60 mph. Now bring it up to 100 mph and the ram affect will add 3 hp.
Everybody will claim that they can feel the increase at 60 mph. It's just their wishful thinking. I don't know anyone that can 'feel' 1 hp! I don't even know of anyone that can 'feel' 3 hp.
So in my opinion, most of the increase from a good inlet has to be from the COLD inlet, not the ram air affect. However on a Vette, I really doubt if it's picking up very hot air, maybe someone has done some data logging of inlet air temps before and after a new inlet and can comment on this.
03-09-2006, 01:20 AM
#57
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by glennhl
I'm confused after reading all these posts. People actually think the air is moving at 60 mph through the inlet duct? The engine is going to pull the air it needs through the inlet duct, no more. You gain performance with the inlet system three ways:
1) You draw in colder denser air into the engine. If the outside air is 70 degrees and the engine compartment air is 100 degrees, you will increase the density of the air from .071 to .075 lbm/ft3. If you assume you pick up 70% of the ratio, then you would increase a 400 hp engine by 15 hp. That is pretty significant!
2) There is a pressure drop due to the air moving through the filter and the inlet system, so a well designed inlet system and larger filter will lose less pressure than a poorly designed restricted inlet system.
3) The ram air will actually increase the pressure in the duct. The best that the ram effect can be is what is referred to as the stagnation pressure. If the air is flowing at 60 mph and you bring the air to a stop, the pressure will rise by 1/2 times the density of the air times the velocity squared. That assumes you have 100% recovery (probably more like 90% in the real world since you do not bring the air to a complete stop in the inlet tract).
So let's look at 60 mph which is 88 feet/sec. Air density is .075 lbm/ft3 for a sea level standard day. Also, you have to divide by 32.2 to convert pounds mass to pounds force, P = .5 * .075 * 88 * 88 / 32.2 = 9.019 lbm/ft3 which is .063 psi. So a standard day at 14.7 pis becomes 14.763. This is a four tenths of 1 percent increase. Again, if you assume 70% for power increase and a 90% recovery of the stagnation pressure you pick up a whopping 1 hp at 60 mph. Now bring it up to 100 mph and the ram affect will add 3 hp.
Everybody will claim that they can feel the increase at 60 mph. It's just their wishful thinking. I don't know anyone that can 'feel' 1 hp! I don't even know of anyone that can 'feel' 3 hp.
So in my opinion, most of the increase from a good inlet has to be from the COLD inlet, not the ram air affect. However on a Vette, I really doubt if it's picking up very hot air, maybe someone has done some data logging of inlet air temps before and after a new inlet and can comment on this.
1) You draw in colder denser air into the engine. If the outside air is 70 degrees and the engine compartment air is 100 degrees, you will increase the density of the air from .071 to .075 lbm/ft3. If you assume you pick up 70% of the ratio, then you would increase a 400 hp engine by 15 hp. That is pretty significant!
2) There is a pressure drop due to the air moving through the filter and the inlet system, so a well designed inlet system and larger filter will lose less pressure than a poorly designed restricted inlet system.
3) The ram air will actually increase the pressure in the duct. The best that the ram effect can be is what is referred to as the stagnation pressure. If the air is flowing at 60 mph and you bring the air to a stop, the pressure will rise by 1/2 times the density of the air times the velocity squared. That assumes you have 100% recovery (probably more like 90% in the real world since you do not bring the air to a complete stop in the inlet tract).
So let's look at 60 mph which is 88 feet/sec. Air density is .075 lbm/ft3 for a sea level standard day. Also, you have to divide by 32.2 to convert pounds mass to pounds force, P = .5 * .075 * 88 * 88 / 32.2 = 9.019 lbm/ft3 which is .063 psi. So a standard day at 14.7 pis becomes 14.763. This is a four tenths of 1 percent increase. Again, if you assume 70% for power increase and a 90% recovery of the stagnation pressure you pick up a whopping 1 hp at 60 mph. Now bring it up to 100 mph and the ram affect will add 3 hp.
Everybody will claim that they can feel the increase at 60 mph. It's just their wishful thinking. I don't know anyone that can 'feel' 1 hp! I don't even know of anyone that can 'feel' 3 hp.
So in my opinion, most of the increase from a good inlet has to be from the COLD inlet, not the ram air affect. However on a Vette, I really doubt if it's picking up very hot air, maybe someone has done some data logging of inlet air temps before and after a new inlet and can comment on this.
03-09-2006, 01:29 AM
#58
Ya pretty much the math never equals out for the V-Ram. It shows less gain on the dyno (On average) than other intakes, but it out-traps them on average. It means SOMETHING is being done with the air. Oh well, I tried to explain it once and got owned.
Bottom line is it works. If you don't like it that's fine. That's why they have different intakes and exhausts and cams, etc. People's choices and preferences differ. So.....let's all just have a beer?
Bottom line is it works. If you don't like it that's fine. That's why they have different intakes and exhausts and cams, etc. People's choices and preferences differ. So.....let's all just have a beer?
03-09-2006, 10:52 AM
#59
Teching In
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look on my 2000 FRC that I sold to pick up my Z I had a blackwing and a GMS carbon fiber airbridge picked up 12 hp and my trap speed was .3 better and 2.2 mph after the install. My 60' time was .13 better so was it the non-ram air intake or was it just the increase in HP. When I installed the Vararam on my Z i picked up 2mph in the trap speed and its funny because my hp was 11 more than stock. So was it the "RAM AIR " effect of the Vararam that took me almost 2 hours of my life and a bloody knuckle to install. I just cant see it. Take a real leap of faith look at an E/T calculator and plug in 3200 lb car w/ 340 rwhp vs 351 rwhp about .2- .3. Now I know this is going to start a whole new argument but it does not take into account what kind of intake or other mod's you have just HP. We all have super cool cutting edge vehicles so cant we all just get along. The math and science work......I would also guess the guys that think the vararam makes some kind of internal boost also still believe in Santa and the Easter bunny. I dont know about you but I did not get a twin turbo under the tree this year and I was GOOD!