manual brakes question
02-18-2009, 06:27 AM
#43
I didn't bother putting one in. Some people tell you that you have to have it, but I didn't bother, ran a line from the burkhart master in the (front of it) to the line lock solenoid, then down to a T that runs out to each tire, the back brakes gont a single line to the back of the car that goes to a T, and I then ran the hard line to each corner on the back and then ran the flexible line out to the tires.
Simple, easy, and no troubles. Car stops fine, I've jumped on the brakes hard and the front tires will lock up before the rears which is probably what you want to happen, car stops with no issues, I haven't had the back lock up or do anything stupid like what you hear can happen, none of it.
With no proportioning valve.
I think alot of people have a bunch of those things on the shelf and they're trying ot sell them, which is why they tell you that you have to have one, IMO
Simple, easy, and no troubles. Car stops fine, I've jumped on the brakes hard and the front tires will lock up before the rears which is probably what you want to happen, car stops with no issues, I haven't had the back lock up or do anything stupid like what you hear can happen, none of it.
With no proportioning valve.
I think alot of people have a bunch of those things on the shelf and they're trying ot sell them, which is why they tell you that you have to have one, IMO
02-18-2009, 06:46 AM
#44
TECH Resident
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: aiken ,sc
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't bother putting one in. Some people tell you that you have to have it, but I didn't bother, ran a line from the burkhart master in the (front of it) to the line lock solenoid, then down to a T that runs out to each tire, the back brakes gont a single line to the back of the car that goes to a T, and I then ran the hard line to each corner on the back and then ran the flexible line out to the tires.
Simple, easy, and no troubles. Car stops fine, I've jumped on the brakes hard and the front tires will lock up before the rears which is probably what you want to happen, car stops with no issues, I haven't had the back lock up or do anything stupid like what you hear can happen, none of it.
With no proportioning valve.
I think alot of people have a bunch of those things on the shelf and they're trying ot sell them, which is why they tell you that you have to have one, IMO
Simple, easy, and no troubles. Car stops fine, I've jumped on the brakes hard and the front tires will lock up before the rears which is probably what you want to happen, car stops with no issues, I haven't had the back lock up or do anything stupid like what you hear can happen, none of it.
With no proportioning valve.
I think alot of people have a bunch of those things on the shelf and they're trying ot sell them, which is why they tell you that you have to have one, IMO
at an nhra/ihra[rule book] it even listed as a violation,under hard braking the car should stop evenly thats why all new car's have anti skid brakes. so you should have a prop valve.esp if you have big and littles it's there to keep you from locking up the frt tires.bob
02-18-2009, 08:03 AM
#45
8 Second Club
iTrader: (40)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Raleigh,North Carolina
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well it gets ugly when the rears lock up first, I know this. When I deleted the abs with the stock master, I had a problem with that. I added a adjustable prop valve to mine with the manual brakes.
The rule came about with bracket racers trying not to brake out, and getting hard on the brakes at the end. It is obviously a bad situation.
The rule came about with bracket racers trying not to brake out, and getting hard on the brakes at the end. It is obviously a bad situation.
02-18-2009, 08:13 AM
#46
jason the last thing you want to happen is what happens with your car, the frt's should not lock up before the rear,you could easily loose control esp in rain or slick condition,and if you are a bracket racer and you have to slow down hard at the stripe,thats also not a safe condition,and if you smoke the tire ,the track will most likely warn you not to do that again as it a big safety issue.
at an nhra/ihra[rule book] it even listed as a violation,under hard braking the car should stop evenly thats why all new car's have anti skid brakes. so you should have a prop valve.esp if you have big and littles it's there to keep you from locking up the frt tires.bob
at an nhra/ihra[rule book] it even listed as a violation,under hard braking the car should stop evenly thats why all new car's have anti skid brakes. so you should have a prop valve.esp if you have big and littles it's there to keep you from locking up the frt tires.bob
I never thought the car would make the first turn off @ lvd from 140+, but I could have that run. Car was a little squirrly, but no worse then it was when ya jumped on the stock brakes that hard.
02-18-2009, 10:32 AM
#47
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The great state of Tejas!
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and now having the shop that did the install, reinstall my brake booster.
I drove the car once and it scared the crap out of me!
I couldn't get the car to really stop.
The car has some factory hard lines, stainless steel lines(front and rear), and big heavy Bear brakes on it.
Not sure if it's a possible leak, air in the lines, the way something was installed,
or just how manual brakes feel, but the car does not feel safe to drive on the street by any means.
Here is the best pic that I have at the moment:
02-18-2009, 11:17 AM
#48
Ya probably have air in the lines. My aerospace brakes stop fine.
Have you ever tried pumping them once when you drive the car, rather then just hitting them once? If not try that, if that helps ya probably have a little air in there somewhere. That pratice, is commonly called the "prayer pump"
Driving with a race brake setup is something that must be done with more caution for sure regardless, stopping distance is increased and quick stops, are not as much an option as they used to be for sure.
Have you ever tried pumping them once when you drive the car, rather then just hitting them once? If not try that, if that helps ya probably have a little air in there somewhere. That pratice, is commonly called the "prayer pump"
Driving with a race brake setup is something that must be done with more caution for sure regardless, stopping distance is increased and quick stops, are not as much an option as they used to be for sure.
02-18-2009, 11:22 AM
#49
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The great state of Tejas!
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ya probably have air in the lines. My aerospace brakes stop fine.
Have you ever tried pumping them once when you drive the car, rather then just hitting them once? If not try that, if that helps ya probably have a little air in there somewhere. That pratice, is commonly called the "prayer pump"
Driving with a race brake setup is something that must be done with more caution for sure regardless, stopping distance is increased and quick stops, are not as much an option as they used to be for sure.
Have you ever tried pumping them once when you drive the car, rather then just hitting them once? If not try that, if that helps ya probably have a little air in there somewhere. That pratice, is commonly called the "prayer pump"
Driving with a race brake setup is something that must be done with more caution for sure regardless, stopping distance is increased and quick stops, are not as much an option as they used to be for sure.
The shop has ensured me that they bled them and there are no leaks.
I just hate having to remove the new equipment that I just purchased and
replace it back with the stock stuff.
Like I said, this wasn't even close to anything you could drive on the street.
I stomped into them just to turn into the gas station to refill the car so they could tune it.
I'm just wondering if it has anything to do with the Baer vs. Aero brakes?
(I wouldn't think so, but just a thought).
02-18-2009, 01:07 PM
#51
Hmm. Not sure. what master cylinder did you go with, and did they move the rod on the brake pedal to correct the angle? That also gives you alot more leverage too making it easier to push down.
Something doesn't seem right, my car stops pretty good IMO for having race brakes on it, it's not as good as stock, but it's livable.
When you hit the pedal, does it feel firm right away, or is it soft initially? If it feels soft initially, there's air in the lines.
It's a real pita to get all the air out fwiw. I worked with a buddy of mine on that for a couple nights before it felt right... and I think we went thru about a gallon of brake fluid before all the air was out. Not my favorite task to say the least. I did fab all my lines and whatnot from scratch too, again, was not too bad, next time I do it I'm sure it will come out alot better, first shot was decent IMO, but the 2nd one will for sure be better.
Something doesn't seem right, my car stops pretty good IMO for having race brakes on it, it's not as good as stock, but it's livable.
When you hit the pedal, does it feel firm right away, or is it soft initially? If it feels soft initially, there's air in the lines.
It's a real pita to get all the air out fwiw. I worked with a buddy of mine on that for a couple nights before it felt right... and I think we went thru about a gallon of brake fluid before all the air was out. Not my favorite task to say the least. I did fab all my lines and whatnot from scratch too, again, was not too bad, next time I do it I'm sure it will come out alot better, first shot was decent IMO, but the 2nd one will for sure be better.
02-18-2009, 01:43 PM
#52
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The great state of Tejas!
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmm. Not sure. what master cylinder did you go with, and did they move the rod on the brake pedal to correct the angle? That also gives you alot more leverage too making it easier to push down.
Something doesn't seem right, my car stops pretty good IMO for having race brakes on it, it's not as good as stock, but it's livable.
When you hit the pedal, does it feel firm right away, or is it soft initially? If it feels soft initially, there's air in the lines.
It's a real pita to get all the air out fwiw. I worked with a buddy of mine on that for a couple nights before it felt right... and I think we went thru about a gallon of brake fluid before all the air was out. Not my favorite task to say the least. I did fab all my lines and whatnot from scratch too, again, was not too bad, next time I do it I'm sure it will come out alot better, first shot was decent IMO, but the 2nd one will for sure be better.
Something doesn't seem right, my car stops pretty good IMO for having race brakes on it, it's not as good as stock, but it's livable.
When you hit the pedal, does it feel firm right away, or is it soft initially? If it feels soft initially, there's air in the lines.
It's a real pita to get all the air out fwiw. I worked with a buddy of mine on that for a couple nights before it felt right... and I think we went thru about a gallon of brake fluid before all the air was out. Not my favorite task to say the least. I did fab all my lines and whatnot from scratch too, again, was not too bad, next time I do it I'm sure it will come out alot better, first shot was decent IMO, but the 2nd one will for sure be better.
I asked the other day and was told yes, they drilled the petal for better leverage.
The petal felt very soft when I drove the car and I would have to MASH it down to the floor for the car to stop quite a few SECONDS before the car would even want to stop.
I'm sure they will re-check everything again for air and re-bleed the system.
Hopefully it solves all problems, without having to put back the factory booster.
I just want to be able to drive the car on the street without any stopping issues.
Last edited by Black2001z06; 02-18-2009 at 01:50 PM.
02-18-2009, 06:47 PM
#53
LS1TECH Sponsor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Out on the farm in Central IL
Posts: 4,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our master is designed to avoid the above situation. Ours will stop fine with your brakes, strange, aorospace, stock.... If the brakes are good and the lines are beld right, we do not have issues. You can get your line lock installed on the master and use an ABS delete kit or new lines.
02-19-2009, 04:44 AM
#55
If you have to mash the pedal and it's not firm right at the hit of thepedal you have air in the lines for sure.
I'd start with re bleeding them before buying anything else, I guarintee you get a buddy oer, start cracking the bleeder screws and pumping that pedal and you'regonna see air come out all over the place, sounds exactly howmy car was before I bled the crap out of them.
I "thought" I had it right the first time, until I drove it aroudn the block and had the issue you did, I got a buddy over, we bled and bled and bled, and now they're good.
The parts you have are probably fine, you could try Burkhart's master if this fails, but I think you should be o.k. once you get the air out of the lines.
I'd start with re bleeding them before buying anything else, I guarintee you get a buddy oer, start cracking the bleeder screws and pumping that pedal and you'regonna see air come out all over the place, sounds exactly howmy car was before I bled the crap out of them.
I "thought" I had it right the first time, until I drove it aroudn the block and had the issue you did, I got a buddy over, we bled and bled and bled, and now they're good.
The parts you have are probably fine, you could try Burkhart's master if this fails, but I think you should be o.k. once you get the air out of the lines.
02-19-2009, 09:07 AM
#56
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The great state of Tejas!
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have to mash the pedal and it's not firm right at the hit of thepedal you have air in the lines for sure.
I'd start with re bleeding them before buying anything else, I guarintee you get a buddy oer, start cracking the bleeder screws and pumping that pedal and you'regonna see air come out all over the place, sounds exactly howmy car was before I bled the crap out of them.
I "thought" I had it right the first time, until I drove it aroudn the block and had the issue you did, I got a buddy over, we bled and bled and bled, and now they're good.
The parts you have are probably fine, you could try Burkhart's master if this fails, but I think you should be o.k. once you get the air out of the lines.
I'd start with re bleeding them before buying anything else, I guarintee you get a buddy oer, start cracking the bleeder screws and pumping that pedal and you'regonna see air come out all over the place, sounds exactly howmy car was before I bled the crap out of them.
I "thought" I had it right the first time, until I drove it aroudn the block and had the issue you did, I got a buddy over, we bled and bled and bled, and now they're good.
The parts you have are probably fine, you could try Burkhart's master if this fails, but I think you should be o.k. once you get the air out of the lines.
Awesome, I was thinking the same thing.
Thank you,
02-19-2009, 10:04 AM
#57
8 Second Club
iTrader: (40)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Raleigh,North Carolina
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is EXTREMELY important to bench bleed the master before installing it. You will have a hard time getting it right if you skip this step. Strange advises this in the instructions, and if you follow it, you will have a trouble free install.
Sounds to me that the shop skipped this step, and you are having issues because of that. You will never get it bled properly, there might not be any more air coming out at the bleeders, but it is trapped in there.
My manual brakes are stiff, but as expected from removing the booster. To street drive requires you to be on the ball and be a defensive driver, and give yourself enough space for stops.
But I may just be a knuckle dragger, with no HVAC manual brakes, and no PS with the stock rack looped with 275 17's.
Sounds to me that the shop skipped this step, and you are having issues because of that. You will never get it bled properly, there might not be any more air coming out at the bleeders, but it is trapped in there.
My manual brakes are stiff, but as expected from removing the booster. To street drive requires you to be on the ball and be a defensive driver, and give yourself enough space for stops.
But I may just be a knuckle dragger, with no HVAC manual brakes, and no PS with the stock rack looped with 275 17's.
02-19-2009, 10:11 AM
#58
I didn't do it either, but I did leave the thing full of fluid with the caps off and the bleeders cracked in the back of the car (nose was alot higher up at the time) for a couple days, every night filling the thing up again, and I did the same with the fronts, left a coffee can under each caliper to catch whatever came out. That's how I started the process, I didn't want fluid in the master when I was trying to install it as I was doing it alone and didn't want to spill it all over the paint.
Worked o.k., next time I'll have a end set of hands when I install the master, and will bench bleed the next one.
Worked o.k., next time I'll have a end set of hands when I install the master, and will bench bleed the next one.
