Traction issues....
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Traction issues.... Well I took the car out last week and only got one full pass in. This is leaving at 5k you guys think the front end comes up to fast and unloads the tires? That was 14psi cold and after I lowered it more the car would bog bad and practically bounce the rim off the ground so Im going back to a dr with stiffer side walls. Car has comp rear shocks at 50/50 and front Strange DAs all the way loose on extension and stiff on compression.
What do you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf6MZWRiwhU
What do you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf6MZWRiwhU
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What makes you say it needs better shocks?
The car has comp 3ways, LCAs, LCA relocation brackets(lca's mounted in bottom holes), PHB, TA, TA is mounted off the trans -2 PA and in the 2nd to lowest hole in the trans/TA relocation bracket. New rear shocks are on the to do list but I had heard lots of good things about the comps so I figured Id give them a try.
The car has comp 3ways, LCAs, LCA relocation brackets(lca's mounted in bottom holes), PHB, TA, TA is mounted off the trans -2 PA and in the 2nd to lowest hole in the trans/TA relocation bracket. New rear shocks are on the to do list but I had heard lots of good things about the comps so I figured Id give them a try.
What makes you say it needs better shocks?
The car has comp 3ways, LCAs, LCA relocation brackets(lca's mounted in bottom holes), PHB, TA, TA is mounted off the trans -2 PA and in the 2nd to lowest hole in the trans/TA relocation bracket. New rear shocks are on the to do list but I had heard lots of good things about the comps so I figured Id give them a try.
The car has comp 3ways, LCAs, LCA relocation brackets(lca's mounted in bottom holes), PHB, TA, TA is mounted off the trans -2 PA and in the 2nd to lowest hole in the trans/TA relocation bracket. New rear shocks are on the to do list but I had heard lots of good things about the comps so I figured Id give them a try.
In some situations Adj stocks are staggard one click from the other and with a 3 way, its WAY too much of a spread.
The way I look at it and it may be wrong is that lets say for stiff its a #3 and full loose is #1, well #2 is the compromise but to have one full stiff and the other neutral may open up a can of worms. But you put in a 12 way Stocker Star from QA1 at least if you need a 7 or #8 click, you can get that inbetween setting and then you can stagger it.
Now I do not own DA shocks so I am no expert and I know madman makes specific valving based on race weight so thats another example of something you can take advantage of.
Like said, thats my suggestion and let us know what works out.
FC6 FE1 RC5 RE2 These were the numbers I used when I had the 6sp. Best 60ft was 1.63. I also suggest raising the nose of the car up about 1/2, it will help get the weight back over the rear tires quicker. This worked with the stick but with the auto I had to lower it back down. As BlackScreaminMachine said earlier about the differences between auto and stick cars is huge.
edit - strange DA f/r with 300lb coilovers up front
edit - strange DA f/r with 300lb coilovers up front
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BlackScreaminMachine I was just wondering if you saw something specifically in the vid that made you say change them.(which I will do over the winter regardless)
I have the strange DAs with 300# springs up front so Ill try that setting. What really sucks is the car used to go in the 1.6s and 11.60s with stock shocks and springs
.
My new 275/60-15 MT DRs came in today so Im gonna get those on and mess with the front shocks some more, and see what happens this friday at the track. Oh I forgot to mention I also have a UMI drag bar on the car. In case you wondering why I bought DRs. I want a stiffer sidewall, something more streetable and a tire that doesnt expand on the big end since the 28" QTPs were growing enough to rub the rocker plus I have a built Th350 going in the car this winter.
I have the strange DAs with 300# springs up front so Ill try that setting. What really sucks is the car used to go in the 1.6s and 11.60s with stock shocks and springs
. My new 275/60-15 MT DRs came in today so Im gonna get those on and mess with the front shocks some more, and see what happens this friday at the track. Oh I forgot to mention I also have a UMI drag bar on the car. In case you wondering why I bought DRs. I want a stiffer sidewall, something more streetable and a tire that doesnt expand on the big end since the 28" QTPs were growing enough to rub the rocker plus I have a built Th350 going in the car this winter.
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Are you just dumping the clutch or letting it out a little to preload the suspension? I've talked with several m6 guys on the forum about using this method and actually used it last time out and it worked well. I stage shallow so I don't redlight then let the clutch out till I feel it grab and when the last yellow drops I hit the gas to activate the 2-step and let the clutch out quickly. Using this method helps keep the car from hitting the tires too hard and unloading the suspension. FWIW I've got Strange DAs up front set at 0 Ext/4-5 Comp and SAs in the rear set at 5 and cut a 1.51. I'm still new to this and need some seat time but it seems to work so far and I know I'll be in the 1.4s soon.
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I keep the clutch in just enough that the car stays in place and loads the suspension then quickly slip the clutch but its a street twin so when it grabs it grabs hard.
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I saw a few things that came to my concern.
What size tires? Looked like 28's. Drop that psi. If it bogs come out higher. You're blowing the tires right off the hit. A sign of too much tire pressure.
The rear remained neutral on the hit (thats good). I think your shock settings are fine.
300 springs upfront... sorry not a GM suspension guy but is that stock or softer? If softer, by how much? It the vid it seems to run out of travel pretty quick..either by strut travel or springs ran out of energy (aka too stiff).
Are the front struts on full loose? How many inches of usable travel do you have?
If you raise the car you are effectively moving weight rearward but on the downside you are reducing your strut travel. So its balancing act that requires testing.
Whats the track prep like?
-Mark
EDIT: Watch your burnout when you roll out of it. The nose "should" come up and carry a little but it just falls. I'd say the issue is in the front.
What size tires? Looked like 28's. Drop that psi. If it bogs come out higher. You're blowing the tires right off the hit. A sign of too much tire pressure.
The rear remained neutral on the hit (thats good). I think your shock settings are fine.
300 springs upfront... sorry not a GM suspension guy but is that stock or softer? If softer, by how much? It the vid it seems to run out of travel pretty quick..either by strut travel or springs ran out of energy (aka too stiff).
Are the front struts on full loose? How many inches of usable travel do you have?
If you raise the car you are effectively moving weight rearward but on the downside you are reducing your strut travel. So its balancing act that requires testing.
Whats the track prep like?
-Mark
EDIT: Watch your burnout when you roll out of it. The nose "should" come up and carry a little but it just falls. I'd say the issue is in the front.
Last edited by Bitemark46; Oct 26, 2010 at 02:09 PM.
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28" hoosier QTPs, Fronts are full loose on extension and full tight on compression, track prep was good, tire pressure was 14 then dropped to 12 but it hooked so good the car would fall on its face and shock the tire so hard the rim would almost bounce off the ground. 300lb springs should be about right for my car and weight.
28" hoosier QTPs, Fronts are full loose on extension and full tight on compression, track prep was good, tire pressure was 14 then dropped to 12 but it hooked so good the car would fall on its face and shock the tire so hard the rim would almost bounce off the ground. 300lb springs should be about right for my car and weight.
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95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
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28" hoosier QTPs, Fronts are full loose on extension and full tight on compression, track prep was good, tire pressure was 14 then dropped to 12 but it hooked so good the car would fall on its face and shock the tire so hard the rim would almost bounce off the ground. 300lb springs should be about right for my car and weight.
But arent QTP's equivalent to MT ET Streets? They have a harder compound and sidewall. Ever tried an all out slick? I run my lil 26" ET Drags at 10psi so you can go lower with a 28" tire. From my findings a manual car always does better with a slick and an auto works better with a DR. Manual's just hit the tire way too hard.
The 300lb springs. Is that more along the lines of a stiff drag spring or more of a softer drag spring?
Med drag spring. We have had good success with them.
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95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
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Jon Its got a Mcleod steel flywheel and a Street twin clutch. Its about as heavy of a clutch flywheel set up you can get so thats not it.
Bitmark The car is hitting the tire so hard its collapsing, distorting something ugly, and almost bottoming the rim on the ground. Coming out at a higher RPM would have shocked the tires even harder. The new DRs are getting mounted right now, I think if I can get them to work the stiffer side wall will help. Also the QTPs would grow so much they would rub the rocker prob from distorting so bad. Shouldnt have that issue with the drag radial. Ive seen M6 cars go wheels up with a very similar suspension and DRs so I know it can work.
Bitmark The car is hitting the tire so hard its collapsing, distorting something ugly, and almost bottoming the rim on the ground. Coming out at a higher RPM would have shocked the tires even harder. The new DRs are getting mounted right now, I think if I can get them to work the stiffer side wall will help. Also the QTPs would grow so much they would rub the rocker prob from distorting so bad. Shouldnt have that issue with the drag radial. Ive seen M6 cars go wheels up with a very similar suspension and DRs so I know it can work.
I have the same Drag Radials you are mounting on my Formula right now. I think you will like them.
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95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
your gonna have issues with the drag radials and the 6 speed. its like voodoo magic getting those two to work together
i agree with what bitemark said. from watching the vid you are spinning right off the bat. i would go with definitely suggest a full slick, but with what your working with more rpm and a little less tire pressure, especially if it is hooking then bogging.
i agree with what bitemark said. from watching the vid you are spinning right off the bat. i would go with definitely suggest a full slick, but with what your working with more rpm and a little less tire pressure, especially if it is hooking then bogging.
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I want more of a street tire so I went with the DR. I had them b4 and did just as well as the 28" QTPs are . My best 60s were with a 27"QTP and stock suspension. I guess if I were to change .5 psi until the tires would rotate once or twice it would be a lot better but they still rubbed and arent the best for cruising around. At 12 psi they hooked then bogged and it did not look pretty. Ill see If I can get a vid.
I still think the front is acting weird and need to slow up the extension. Seems like it goes up then slams back down instead of falling back down.
I still think the front is acting weird and need to slow up the extension. Seems like it goes up then slams back down instead of falling back down.