My Mamo Atomic in on top of his MMS 265 LS7 heads with a 102 TB.

 

I may create some hate behind this post but I don't care. I keep it real and always will. The MSD intake is overhyped and overrated especially in a cathedral setup. Just because something is newer on the market doesn't makes it better.

When Richard Holderner tested 20 LS intakes (Hot Rod Magazine) the Fast 102mm intake made 1 horsepower less than the MSD shoebox intake. However, the Fast 102mm intake made 12 more ft lbs over the MSD intake. I know which one I rather have period.

Go with a ported Fast 102mm intake. The lower shell is more critical to porting. You really want the ports to MATCH the runners on the heads. Also by porting the Fast intake it can result in the intake hanging on a bit longer in the upper RPM range vs the intake out the box. Something to REALLY think about that people don't think about.

Sidenote~ I've seen a naturally aspirated 6 speed LS7 headed 427ci LS7 Fbody at LS fest in Kentucky with the MSD box on top of the engine. The car wasn't all that impressive as people claim it to be. Car didn't trapped no high mph or e.t better than the others was there. By the way I'm going this year and I'm go be paying attention as usual.

 

No hate only experiences being talked about. I am curious of the entire setup more so than just the intake. There are other tests that show the exact opposite of your experiences and the test you're speaking of. A ported MSD does fine but there are other options out there if people want something different. I believe Tony has tested both of his ported intakes, MSD vs Fast 102 on the same build and the MSD won. Other setups it might not. More factors than just the intake.

 

No hate going on here brother. We welcome the open minded and opposing views for intellectual discussion. I have heard of Richard's testing, but what about our boy Darth? I was just scanning threads on 102 vs MSD earlier and came across Darth's thread. It looks like 6500+ the MSD will make more power.
Is the ls6 intake manifold the reason I can cut a 1.32 at 4900 rpm launch and others launch at 6,000+ but cannot even cut a 1.39? If I swapped to a 102 or MSD do you think I could replicate my 60fts at the same launch RPM or would I need to launch higher?

Stroker right on the money here, respectful and open. So there is no doubting that the MSD outperforms the 102 in the upper RPMs 6500+ or is that up for debate?

Am I gambling every time I go racing with ls7 lifters? Because in my head I have no sense of security from them.

Are stock rockers w/ trunion good to 7500 rpms if valve lift is under .650?

 

For the questions directed at me I can say I have seen some run them successfully and other who wouldn't dare. That's going to be up to you.

You made a good point above and it goes hand in hand with my point of reference in the setup. There are always trade offs with how you set up your engine and as important is how the rest of the car is set up. I believe, from my own research (which could be wrong), that the larger CI LS engines that are built for max or high HP achieve that better with the MSD if sticking with a composite intake. However, I don't think the gain is as big with say a 6.0-6.6 liter engine. I also believe that some combinations won't see big gains unless the heads are able to take advantage.

 

LS7 motor
LS7 heads untouched
MSD intake Untouched
3400lbs
Mcleod RXT clutch
BTR stage 3 cam 237/250 646/632 113+3
MWC 9" with 4.30 gears
543rwhp/497rwtq

10.73 @ 129.57 on a 1.65 60ft is what I saw...

Dyno testing is cool but nothing beats Real world testing. Car is a 6 speed 4th gen SS

 

These intakes pick up a bit being ported, lots of flash in them. Not sure if just the casting they are using does this or some other reason but they really do well if cleaned up. Most just take a hair off from what you can see but the key is to open it up.

Cam isn't monstrous so I bet it drives well. Debating on changing mine. I don't know the track temp/DA so all I can say is for that HP the MPH looks low, only because it's going through a 9" rear and the 4.30 gears will show less on a dyno so probably a 25 hp rwhp low swing vs say a 7.5 and 3.42 rear.

 

Parker, let's toss around a couple of things here. Darth setup was nice however it was a LLSR with high dollar vavetrain parts to go along with that. LLSR builds are nice but more complex that a simple hydraulic roller setup..

Secondly, look at DSE third gen camaro. It have a 705 horsepower destroked LS7 motor with Mast Heads. Pay attention to the lift and the valvetrain components to this build here...

http://www.superchevy.com/features/1...aro-ever-built

 

Cathedral intakes need more porting than the rect port intakes by a long shot. The cross sectional area and taper is way more critcal since the air speed is higher.

Taper is a really big deal to getting the motor to make power and pick up rpm effectively.

GM really had their ducks in a row they designed the rectangle LS3 and LS7 intakes vs the LS1 cathedral intakes.

 

If we consider non composite manifolds, how well do they stack up against the 102 and MSD? My car does get driven on the street but the priority is track performance by far. That car running 10.70s would be 10.40s if it was being launched properly. 1.65 short time?

 

Some of the metal intakes are good... some are not. The Beck sheet metal intake is one of those intakes that do delivers at the track. My opinion though is a Fast 102mm intake is hard to beat. Less weight... less heat.

Its a 6.0 car on (pump gas) board here with ported factory cathedrals that went 9s at 134.XX threw a automatic using a fast 90mm intake which is outdated by todays standard.

 

Have you cracked open the MSD yet?

The LS3 and LS7 intake ports are quite different from what I recall. Been a while since I dug into it as I haven't had an LS3 car since I think 2014. But as you state they are both an advancement over the cathedral but over the years some nasty cathedral head/intake engines have made some great power. I dig em all.

 

Nope I haven't. I just have some MSD combos at the track.

 

Ram air setup has shipped so hopefully I can make some progress on that next week.

On this episode of how outdated is my cam, what did we score?

 

Contact Martin Smallwood if you thinking about changing camshafts. Tell him your current track times and cam specs. He will set you nicely on something more suited for your goals.

In my opinion you need to be at 247 to 251 duration on the intake duration. That tends to be the sweetspot for a cathedral headed stroker from 402ci to 418ci motors.

 

For sure can up the cam a bit and the ram air and if it had a fast/msd your preference I am betting you would pick up some HP, I still like fast intakes. Martins cam for my SBE/stock a lot of things was 235/251 .639 .632. Give you some comparison on a 5.7 stuff. I am rocking a super Vic and all that jazz.

 

Man it really 60 fts well, your setup is working good.

 

One of the most important factors for picking an intake and Richards goes over this in his videos is what is the intended us and rpm range for the intake. This is a question you need to ask yourself. Do you care about losing down low hp and torque to gain hp and torque somewhere else in the rpm range. It’s a give and take concept. Let’s same you like driving the car on the street and want the lower rpm torque and the hp at lower then 6800-7000k then you can not beat the fast 102 intake period. If you still like driving it on the street and don’t care about losing a little bit down low to gain from 6800-7500 then the MSD will shine better then the fast at the rpm range. The same really goes for sheet metal intakes. If you are spinning the motor 7000-8000 you are going to gain very well With certain sheet metal intakes over a fast 102. Honestly fast 102 or MSD you are going to make more power then a ls6 on your setup. That is everywhere in the rpm range. Just have to find a good tuner to dial in a 102 Tb. Don’t cheap out on a 102 Tb either.

 

Your fighting a tough battle. One of the key components that would take you the next level requires body modification. With a car as nice as yours, would be a tough decision to make. I am in the same boat. 30 inch diameter tire and rear 4.57 gear.

 

Post a pic of your engine bay setup? Specifically the intake setup. Were you running stock rockers with that cam? What did you spin it to?