The Guy in MY 99TA

I got my car mainly b/c I wanted to put a converter and shift kit in it b/c I knew it would be faster.(pretty smart for a 15 year old at the time huh) LOL

Does it count that I prefer my A4 for racing and riding around town but for having fun I prefer a 6 speed and if I could afford the insurance I would probably buy me another car that had an M6.

Josh S.

Colonel

"i do suggest you get a deadenbear case though."

Oh, not to worry. It'll have all the bells and whistles. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

AlienDroid

I've had my exgirlfriend and other girls drive my A4 z28 with stall on et streets and they really get a kick out of it. I like that, and for most of them that's the only chance they'll ever get to take off through an intersection like that in the driver's seat. So let's stop putting women down by affirming what we can do, which we claim they cannot do, to be the only worthwhile way of doing things. Just because a girl can do something doesn't make it bad. So what's it worth if you are the only person on this planet that can drive your car fast? You are just super special <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

The funny thing is that I'm like the colonel. I've got a M6 SS and an A4 z28. My z28 is faster then my SS by a long shot, the SS has 2,500 miles on it and the z28 has 74,000 miles on it. Oh, I've had the z28 twice as long as I've had the SS.

I vote A4 all the way, except on Sunday, then it's M6 time baby!!

deviate42

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MRZ28HO:
<strong>Driving implies taking turns/curves. Last I checked an A4 nor an M6 will turn by themsleves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> So you manual drivers are not DRIVING you cars, you are SHIFTING them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

We should go back to carbs, when we used to be one with the car. Knowing our skills were responsible for the wins. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just yanking your manual chains everyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Progress, people, progress. In the old days the autos were (alot) slower than the manuals. The gap is shortening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Oh, and if anyone wants to race my car (bolt-on for bolt-on, A4 vs M6) meet me at LACR. We'll see if you can run those 'net numbers here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ill give you a run or two if head down to Carlsbad. Ill bring my 5-speed M too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

roadrunner-r

The only thing that helps the m6 is the gearing,and they can lanch higher. Put 342s in a a4 and stall what ever stall you want! Just to be the same put 3k and lanch a m6 at 3k with 342s. Lets see who wins. Yo can never out shift a auto Buddy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> M6 are just a little more of a chanllge.I already have a rush with auto. I need the extra hand for the cell and holding my girl <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

fastlif

iTrader: (1)

Tony,

I have a FLP level iv in my car now BUT...I will swap it and accept your change with my "factory trans"(has a shift kit). If you don't want to accept that as stock trans, I am sure I can come up with a 100% stock one but you have to run a "factory stock" clutch also. We also will run best 3 out of 5.

To answer the topic question...
quicker? automatic
faster? M6

Shawn

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Thats incorrect. An A4 is just cheaper to get a good 60' time out of. A converter swap and drag slicks and you are in the 1.5-1.6 range with a stock A4 car.

A manual car can hit those times, but needs a good 12-bolt rearend. If the stock M6 and A4 have the same 60' times, a good driver in the M6 will win.

Move on down to the low 11s. Or 10s. Then the cost of the parts for either setup is about the same.

A4 - $2000 tranny rebuild, $750 converter
M6 - $2000 rearend, $700 clutch

Same results.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">you have to run a "factory stock" clutch also</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Clutch has nothing to do with the transmission type. Does that mean you would run a factory torque converter in an A4?

Show me an all-motor LS1 running 10.67 or better with a stock 4L60e and 3600 lbs

RomanSS ran 9s with a stock T56. Any 9-second LS1/LT1s with an unmodified 4L60e? Nope.

Tony

restoman45

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> the only thing ill drive is an auto
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drive? Don't you mean ride? No driving required.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">lol, i completely agree...even if i lose against an auto, i know that i did my own driving <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> nothing will ever be as fun as powershifting... <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

fastlif

iTrader: (1)

Tony,

I see your point. I was saying stock clutch if I can't run a shift kit. I am sure I can do beter than 10.67 with my car and my "stock" tranny...your above challenge to TApimp didn't say anything about n/a. HAHA.

I will say if I had your motor (before the BOOM) with my a4 it would be quicker...maybe not but probably.

Be honest...how many times have you missed a gear?
.
.
.
.
.
at least once...no one is perfect...guess what thats one more than I have. Drag raing is the least forgiving sport. One mistake and you are out. I'll take an auto.

Bob Cosby

Bone stock to bone stock, I'll go with the M6 - assuming the driver is really good. Beyond that, I'll go with the A4.

Everything else being equal, a properly setup "street" automatic will outrun a properly setup up "street" manual.

By street I mean and OD automatic and a T56/T45/T5/T3550 manual.

The T56 is hampered with the 2.66 1st gear. Again, everything else being equal, you'll never be able to get as good a 60 ft out of that T56 as you would a good A4 with a good converter.

I guess a trick "slipper clutch" might do the trick, but that's certainly a race-only piece.

I don't care how good you are...you cannot outshift a properly-prepped A4. By properly-prepared I simply mean a shift kit or a tranny that has been electronically made to shift hard.

An excellent driver can be deadly consistent with an M6. An average driver can be deadly consistent with an A4.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats incorrect. An A4 is just cheaper to get a good 60' time out of. A converter swap and drag slicks and you are in the 1.5-1.6 range with a stock A4 car.

A manual car can hit those times, but needs a good 12-bolt rearend. If the stock M6 and A4 have the same 60' times, a good driver in the M6 will win.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think there is any such thing as a stock-motored M6 running 1.5 60 fts. In fact, very few break into the 1.6's.

If - and its a big if - the M6 could indeed get as good a 60 ft as an A4, then I would be more inclinded to agree that the M6 could run with the A4 car.

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cosby ]</small>

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

Joe, you really have a knack for starting the most controversial topics at just the right time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

To start off with, I'd like to adhere closely to the topic at hand: which is quicker and why. Now, then. I personally believe that a properly-geared T56 car will beat a properly-stalled/geared 4L60E car. Even if you gear a 6-speed to the moon and still can't keep up with a properly stalled/geared A4 off the line, the difference in drivetrain loss between the two trannies cannot be denied. Point being: what, if any, a properly set up T56 car loses off the line or between shifts to a properly set up 4L60E car can be made up for and then some as you proceed down the track. That is my theory and I intend to prove it (at least at the bolt-on level) this coming year. The cost or difficulty of setting the cars up to be consistent and/or reliable are irrelevant to the topic at hand. A lot of you will now point directly to the lists we have on this site, and you'll say, "look at all these autos and there just aren't that many manuals." Then, at that time, I'll point directly to what almost everyone in this discussion has acknowledged to be the truth: that A4's are easier and cheaper to make quick, and are easier on the drivetrain. I also won't shy away from saying we have a shortage of skilled 6-speed drivers out there. Like it or not, it does take more skill to get the best ET possible out of a T56 setup than it does to get the best ET possible out of a 4L60E setup. Obviously adequate A4 drivers are more abundant than M6 drivers which factors heavily in the A4/M6 ratio you see on our lists. Anyway, now I'd like to address a few comments made in this thread that caught my eye:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by fastlif:
<strong>Be honest...how many times have you missed a gear?
.
.
.
.
.
at least once...no one is perfect...guess what thats one more than I have.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can in all honesty say I have NEVER missed a shift at the track. On the street, yes, several times, in fact, when my gay T56 blew up and I continued to drive it. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> And once, maybe twice on the street when racing, but NEVER once at the track. Let's hope that continues. I'd also like to back up what Tony said, I've seen a good many A4 cars slip and hit the rev limiter between shifts (my own A4 did it several times).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob Cosby:
<strong>I don't think there is any such thing as a stock-motored M6 running 1.5 60 fts. In fact, very few break into the 1.6's.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not yet at least! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>And you want to hear about excuses? If I had a dollar every time I heard the "with a slipping clutch" excuse I could afford to fill my garage with $850 clutches and $1600 spare M6 transmissions!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe a slipping clutch can cause a great fall-off in performance, and hence can be used as a good excuse. Certainly not something I would leave out. If someone looks at your ¼-mile times, they assume you had a perfect run until you give them reason not to. Your M6 excuse discovery does not pardon all your A4 brethren's excuses we've all heard. (Slipping tranny, torque management woes, or even the "I have a power-robbing automatic tranny" excuse).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MRZ28HO:
<strong>Driving implies taking turns/curves.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No it doesn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Oh, and if anyone wants to race my car (bolt-on for bolt-on, A4 vs M6) meet me at LACR. We'll see if you can run those 'net numbers here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm assuming LACR is in CA, or at least somewhere along the west coast, so, no, I'm not going to go that far for one challenge, but I'd sure take you up on that if you happen to make it to one of the get-togethers this year.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AlienDroid:
<strong>I've had my exgirlfriend and other girls drive my A4 z28 with stall on et streets and they really get a kick out of it. I like that, and for most of them that's the only chance they'll ever get to take off through an intersection like that in the driver's seat. So let's stop putting women down by affirming what we can do, which we claim they cannot do, to be the only worthwhile way of doing things. Just because a girl can do something doesn't make it bad. So what's it worth if you are the only person on this planet that can drive your car fast? You are just super special <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I assume you're referring to Tony's question about the reason behind a lot of guys' decisions to get an A4. Let me just point out that Tony never put women down, and he was only joking anyway. I'll come right out and say it...women in general aren't as skilled at driving as men. It's a fact. Now what?

One more point before I go, and this one has to do with the actual time elapsed during shifts. Bob and others: how can you be so sure that no M6 car can be shifted as quickly as a properly-prepped A4 tranny shifts itself? Can it be timed? Are you just judging by sound or just guessing or what? If it can be timed somehow, I'd like to try it out and see just how much time the 6-speed guys are truly losing during shifts.

Thank you, that is all for now.

annil8r

When i started driving i had an a4 but it was bone stock except for a whisper lid and exaust.I thought the car was to slow so i traded it in on a 2001 firehawk m6, after 6 transmissions in the m6 i decided to buy the automatic back.

befor u start saying that i cant drive get ur **** straight because i can drive an m6 as good as and better than some of u, the fact is that u can power shift a m6 and be almost as fast as a a4 but a a4 shifts that fast all of the time and if u constantly powershift a m6 they wont stay together. On a second note im now building the a4 and have given the m6 to my father with 2 gear synchro busted. Also m6s like eating rear ends <img border="0" alt="[kaboom]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bomb.gif" /> so be prepared to replace axles and ring and pinions or get a 12 bolt.

If ur going to road race get an m6. If u like straight line fun get an auto.

btw If the auto has a converter the m6 may not even be faster from a roll jmo

ROB'S SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong>
One more point before I go, and this one has to do with the actual time elapsed during shifts. Bob and others: how can you be so sure that no M6 car can be shifted as quickly as a properly-prepped A4 tranny shifts itself? Can it be timed? Are you just judging by sound or just guessing or what? If it can be timed somehow, I'd like to try it out and see just how much time the 6-speed guys are truly losing during shifts.

Thank you, that is all for now.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">does the front end of a m6 dip when you shift(even power shift)yes. does the front end of a properly-prepped A4 tranny dip?no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> of course, feel free to correct me if im wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Bob Cosby

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">the difference in drivetrain loss between the two trannies cannot be denied.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed. Neither can it be denied that a properly setup A4 combination can keep the engine much closer to its power band than a T56, and as acceleration is directly related to the average HP a car puts to the ground throughout the rpm band in each gear, this is where the automatic makes its money (so to speak).

I will again say that if the manual is a race setup, I will happily retract most of my statements.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point being: what, if any, a properly set up T56 car loses off the line or between shifts to a properly set up 4L60E car can be made up for and then some as you proceed down the track. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. It can certainly make up some, and it will likely have a better mph, but gains in the early half of the track are far more important than those in the latter half, as it relates to ET.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The cost or difficulty of setting the cars up to be consistent and/or reliable are irrelevant to the topic at hand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree. Ditto the "fun factor" that has also been mentioned.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like it or not, it does take more skill to get the best ET possible out of a T56 setup than it does to get the best ET possible out of a 4L60E setup.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No arguement with that one, though I personally wouldn't use that to downplay the achievements of any of the fast A4 guys (not implying that you do, just making a statement).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can in all honesty say I have NEVER missed a shift at the track.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can honestly say that I've likely missed more gears at the track than you have made! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bob and others: how can you be so sure that no M6 car can be shifted as quickly as a properly-prepped A4 tranny shifts itself? Can it be timed? Are you just judging by sound or just guessing or what? If it can be timed somehow, I'd like to try it out and see just how much time the 6-speed guys are truly losing during shifts.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I have not timed it, nor do I think it is possible to be timed. I have no problems stating that this is nothing more than an opinion. However, it is an opinion based on personal experience with both types of transmissions, and while I don't claim to be the best at anything, I think I row gears fairly well and fairly quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Bob Cosby

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">does the front end of a m6 dip when you shift(even power shift)yes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well....not really. You can see the rear end squat hard (if done correctly), but not really any noticeable front-end drop.

Powershifting (broadband)

Powershifting (bandwidth impaired)

Those might not make a very good case, but its the best I've got. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

ROB'S SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob Cosby:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">does the front end of a m6 dip when you shift(even power shift)yes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well....not really. You can see the rear end squat hard (if done correctly), but not really any noticeable front-end drop.

Powershifting (broadband)

Powershifting (bandwidth impaired)

Those might not make a very good case, but its the best I've got. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes, the rear end does squat, but only after you have reengaged the drivetrain to the motor. as soon as you push the clutch in, your front end is going to dip

Bob Cosby

Ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ROB'S SS:
<strong>does the front end of a m6 dip when you shift(even power shift)yes. does the front end of a properly-prepped A4 tranny dip?no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> of course, feel free to correct me if im wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can certainly see where you're coming from, but frankly, I'm not so much concerned with how much the car dips/squats/whatever. I'm concerned with actual ET lost. I guess there's no way to know for sure, so this is pretty much going to be speculation. There is only a certain amount of speed that even computer-controlled mechanical parts (clutches, bands, what have you) can shift the tranny. And I just think that especially if the 6-speed guy is powershifting, the 6-speeds can come pretty close to shifting as quickly as an auto. I could well be wrong, but again, I think it's pretty much speculation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob Cosby:
<strong>Neither can it be denied that a properly setup A4 combination can keep the engine much closer to its power band than a T56, and as acceleration is directly related to the average HP a car puts to the ground throughout the rpm band in each gear, this is where the automatic makes its money (so to speak).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I understand and realize that that is true, but would you mind, for the sake of my own ignorance, explaining why the A4's can do that neat little trick? It seems like in order to do that you have to change the gearing somewhere, whether it be in the tranny or in the rear. Unless it's the change in shift extension caused by a higher-stall torque converter.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Point being: what, if any, a properly set up T56 car loses off the line or between shifts to a properly set up 4L60E car can be made up for and then some as you proceed down the track. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. It can certainly make up some, and it will likely have a better mph, but gains in the early half of the track are far more important than those in the latter half, as it relates to ET.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I was going on the assumption that a properly set up T56 car can cut 60's near or equal to the properly set up 4L60E car. In which case, the distance the 6-speed has to make up is shorter and more manageable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>I can in all honesty say I have NEVER missed a shift at the track.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can honestly say that I've likely missed more gears at the track than you have made! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ha ha. The funny thing is that now that I've said that, I'm liable to end up missing one at our little shootout and lose!!!

<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

(Nah, probably not). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Colonel

"I understand and realize that that is true, but would you mind, for the sake of my own ignorance, explaining why the A4's can do that neat little trick? It seems like in order to do that you have to change the gearing somewhere, whether it be in the tranny or in the rear. Unless it's the change in shift extension caused by a higher-stall torque converter."

With the right converter you can keep your RPMs VERY close to your HP peak at all times. With a manual you are stuck with the RPM range that your gear spacing affords. Not so with an auto.