White_Liberty

Okay...you guys win. RWD of course is better for drag racing...note that I didn't say anything BUT "DRAG RACING". Ok...I've decided to let the FWD thing die...while it was a fun discussion...I'm letting it die and bury into the internal hell pits of Ls1tech.com. I'd hate to start another one for the simple fact that I would get intaginized again. But all this is besides the point. Those who subscribe to my threads know I'm a wierd person who likes to think "out of the car". But anyways...I've been thinking...

Ways to lighten your car...

Hmm...says I to myself..."what about titanium driveshafts"?

What do you think? Would these hold up? Would it help the car loose a little weight? Would it be worth the time to fab one up in a machine shop? Anyways to save the weight...

I'm speaking on behalf of everycar...including the LS1s and LT4s. Everything...

What's your guys ideas?

White_Liberty

Here's some relavent info for those who dont know alot about Titanium:
taken from:http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-cha...ents/Ti-en.htm
Atomic number
22

Atomic mass
47.90 g.mol -1

Electronegativity according to Pauling
1.5

Density
4.51 g.cm-3 at 20°C

Melting point
1660 °C

Boiling point
3287 °C

Vanderwaals radius
0.147 nm

Ionic radius
0.09 nm (+2) ; 0.068 nm (+4)

Isotopes
8

Electronic shell
[ Ar ] 3d1 4s2

Energy of first ionisation
658 kJ.mol -1

Energy of second ionisation
1310 kJ.mol -1

Energy of third ionisation
2652 kJ.mol -1

Energy of fourth ionisation
4175 kJ.mol -1

Discovered by
William Gregor in 1791

Titanium
Chemical element, Ti, atomic number 22 and atomic weight 47.90. Its chemical behavior shows many similarities with that or silica and zirconium, as an element belonging to the first transition group. Its chemistry in aqueous solution, especially in the lower oxidation states, has some similarities with that of chrome and vanadium. Titanium is a transition metal light with a white-silvery-metallic colour. It is stong, lustrous, corrosion-resistant. Pure titanium is not soluble in water but is soluble in concentrated acids. This metal forms a passive but protective oxide coating (leading to corrosion-resistance) when exposed to elevated temperatures in air but at room temperatures it resists tarnishing.

The main oxidation state is 4+, although the states 3+ and 2+ are also known, but are less stable. This element burns in the air when it’s heated up to obtain the dioxide, TiO2, and when it is combined with halogens. It reduces the water vapor to form the dioxide and hydrogen, and it reacts in a similar way with hot concentrated acids, although it forms trichloride with chlorhydric acid. The metal absorbs hydrogen to give TiH2, and forms the nitride, TiN, and the carbide, TiC. Other known compounds are the sulfur TiS2, as well as the lowest oxides, Ti2O3 and TiO, and the sulfurs Ti2S3 and TiS. Salts are known in the three oxidation states.

Applications

The titanium dioxide is extensively used as a white pigment in outside paintings for being chemically inert, for its great coating power, its opacity to UV light damage and its autocleaning capacity. The dioxide was also used once as a bleaching and opicifying agent in porcelain enamels, giving them a final touch of great brightness, hardness and acid resistance. A typical lipstick contais 10% titanium.

Titaium alloys are characterized by very high tensile strength even at high temperatures, light weight, high corrosion resistance, and ability to withstand extreme temperatures. ue to these properties they are principally used in aircraft, pipes for power plants, armour plating, naval ships, spacecraft and missiles. Titanium is as strong as steel but 45% lighter.

In medicine titanium is used to make hip and knee replacements, pace-makers, bone-plates and screws and cranial plates for skull fractures. It has also been used to attach false theet.

The alkaline earth titanates have some remarkable properties. The level of dielectric constants varies from 13 for the MgTiO3, to various milliards for solid solutions of SrTiO3 in BaTiO3. The barium titanate also has a dielectric constant of 10.000 close to 120ºC, which is its Curie point; it has low dielectric histeresis. The ceramic transductors that contain barium titanate are favorably compared with Rochelle salt in terms of thermal stability and with quartz in terms of the strength of the effect and the capacity to form the ceramics in various forms. The compound has bee used as ultrasonic vibrations generator and as a sound detector.

Titanium in the environment

Althoug it is not found unbound to other elements in nature, titamuim is the ninth most abundant element in the Earth's crust (0.63% by mass) and is present in most igneous rocks and in sediments derived from them. Important titanium minerals are rutile, brookite, anatase, illmenite, and titanite. The chief mined ore, ilmenite, occurs as vast deposits of sand in Western Australia, Norway, Canada and Ukraine. Large deposits of rutile in North America and South Africa also contribute significantly to the world supply of titanium. World production of the metal is about 90.000 tonnes per year, and that of titanium dioxide is 4.3 million tonnes per year.

The titanium dioxide, TiO2, is commonly found in a black or brownish form known as rutile. The natural forms that are less frequently found in nature are the anatasite and the brooquite. Both the pure rutile and the pure anatasite are white. The black basic oxide, FeTiO3, is found in the natural form as the natural mineral called ilmenite; this is the main commercial source of titanium.

Health effects of titanium
There is no known biological role for titanium. There is a detectable amount of titanium in the human body and it has been hestimated that we take in about 0.8 mg/day, but most passes through us without being adsorbed. It is not a poisoun metal and the human body can tolerate titanium in large dosis.

Elemental titanium and titanium dioxide is of a low order of toxicity. Laboratory animals (rats) exposed to titanium dioxide via inhalation have developed small-localized areas of dark-colored dust deposits in the lungs. Excessive exposure in humans may result in slight changes in the lungs.

Effects of overexposure to titanium powder: Dust inhalation may cause tightness and pain in chest, coughing, and difficulty in breathing. Contact with skin or eyes may cause irritation. Routes of entry: Inhalation, skin contact, eye contact.

Carcinogenicity: The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has listed titanium dioxide within Group 3 (The agent is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans.)

Environmental effects of titanium
Low toxicity. When in a metallic powdered form, titanium metal poses a significant fire hazard and, when heated in air, an explosion hazard.

No environmental effects have been reported.

pontiac

iTrader: (4)

I am shure it would be a strong, Light DS, but cost would be to much compared to the gains. the over all weight would not be a huge differnece form other alternatives that are ALOT cheaper. so yes it would work, but there is not a significant difference to make up for the much larger price tag. Rotating mass would be what helps in this case, and I do not think there would be a big difference, have you ever picked up a aluminum DS, they are not heavy. they would be stronger, but have other things stronger that are cheaper too i think.

and I am glad you droped the FWD drag racing thing, haha

White_Liberty

Yea I know...it's dead. It was a great thread with alot of great info but people just wouldn't leave it alone... I kinda miss it myself...

Thanks for the reply. I was just wondering if it was an option. Does anyone even make them currently?

mattraypharbor

iTrader: (2)

just use a steal one.

White_Liberty

Why?

I'm trying to think outside of the box here...and that means saving more weight for a faster drag time....

Plus its spelled STEEL!!! Not steal...

Rogue86

iTrader: (14)

If you have unlimited resources go for it. But while you'd be spending insane amounts of money on a 2lb lighter drive shaft, someone else will spend that extra 300 or however many dollars on a nitrous kit that will leave you in the dust.

Besides, carbon fiber is lighter and is used for a drive shaft on certain race vehicles.

You might think you are thinking "out of the car" but chances are serious racers and manufacturers have already come up with it, or better solutions.

<---weights payshently four the spel cheque white_liberty duz too evry won

Rogue86

iTrader: (14)

Its called ELAPSED TIME Not drag time...

BigSteele

iTrader: (17)

companies already make aluminum, chromoly, and carbon fiber driveshafts. Pick the lightest one that will work with your application, and buy it.

White_Liberty

sorry..........you drag dudes got your certain lingo. I focus more on what makes me faster...

I'm thinking of experimenting w/ some CF driveshaft...

ATwelveSec02Z28

iTrader: (17)

Titanium is actually a poor choice.... it is strong, however due to the hardness it is also brittle, titanium tends to break or crack rather than bend or twist

Kent1

I have had a carbon fiber drive shaft for over 6 years. Anytime, I can get rotation weight lighter, I go for it. Oh, it does not hurt to think out of the car, I mean box.

White_Liberty

Yep...

Glad to hear you've had good experience. It sounds like something I'll be looking into. Thanks guys

MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

I am running a "Titunium" driveshaft. Its a mixture of Aluminum and Titianium in a bi-metal matrix. That way I have the best of both wrolds.

White_Liberty

How has it held up? how much rwhp are you getting?

promod1955

iTrader: (44)

If your looking for titanium, that would be the way to go. I wouldn't use straight titanium. Titanium has sort of a springyness to it. This being the reason why we dont use titanium on bottom 4link bars due to the compression they see. I'm not exactly sure how it would react to a twisting force, but I believe there would be some drawbacks. Call Mark Williams Enterprises. They may have tried it in the past and might have some info.

xxx

Madman is correct the Titunium bi-metal is a great choice. It's a light weight metal yet still has the yeild strength double that of Titainium. We've put them close to 2000 rwhp with out failure and if my calculations are right they should handle anything we'll ever throw at them. Our vendor has also made us a few sets of rods for our motors (Brady/Brian hope it is ok to share this), and they've worked out great. If brady and Madman can't break em' no one can. Everyone seems to think Titunium is some new late breaking discovery, however it's been around a while. It was first introduced in the late 70's by a gentleman named Manfred Beil. He was a engineer who designed locamotives. Any of you who are familiar with the railroad industry has probably heard of the Beil Shaft. This is what shoulders most of the torque the train puts out. When the newer more powerful Loco's started surfacing they needed something super strong to prevent what some loco engineers refer to as "shaft stretch". Mr. Manfred came across this alloy during some of his studies and found once thes to metals were bonded, it become 106% stronger than Titainium alone. There aren't many companies using the bi-metal these days due to cost and limited availability. If you are indeed interested in a driveshaft, crankshaft, or rods, let Madman know. Be very specific on your orders because they all have to be special made, they're not just layin' on a shelf somewhere.

thechef

iTrader: (13)

thats where i got mine from, MADMAN hooked my up and what a difference it made, getting him to make these custom driveshafts was a great idea

kp

iTrader: (34)

Are you sure its bi or is it straight?

MARKSZ71

iTrader: (3)

colonel had a cf driveshaft 5 years ago lol