SFI 25.2 Mustang/LSx build "The Renegade"
10-11-2010, 05:15 PM
#3562
Old test hit from a while ago at 3385 I found on my computer when I cleaned it up today...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7INa9CGBj-s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7INa9CGBj-s
10-13-2010, 08:02 PM
#3566
Planning stage.... Shawn is busy working on getting everything to work correctly in the new motor. Its not as easy as buying parts and throwing it together. Alot of calculations and thought is going into every piece of the build to ensure it works correctly.
We have talked about the direction we need to go in ODR and with the way the class is heading you really need to have a big block with twins to hang with the guns in the 1/4 or 1/8 mile. We both feel that it is in our best interest to try to find a combo that will make power on demand while being efficient out the back door. In theory, we want a car that can 60' in the teens and have the powertrain that is efficient enough to have very little slippage(sub 4%) to keep the RPMs as low as possible will yeild a combo that is reliable. We will not be able to run with the big dogs with 1.25 60's. Our car doesn't make enough power to run with them out the back door.
I've gone over the chassis from front to back and eventhough it may be backyard built, mechanically its exactly where it needs to be.
We've started talking about switching turbos to something that spools alittle faster but makes more power. The idea about going down in turbo to a 101mm but upping the compression to 13.5:1 and setting the turbo on kill came up. Possibly some hybrid turbo components that would aid in spool time. The first second of the run is critical and thats where the focus is being put. Twin Promod 76/80s have came across the table. The trend of going to a bigger turbo just seems to make the 60's slower, trap speeds get bigger and no improvement in the ET. There are alot of options that we feel have merit but there is one way we can build the motor that seems to make the most sense.
Shawn and I talked about the little bit of data we got this year and frankly we're pretty happy with the numbers we have knowing the conditions. Chris Esterly from ATI has some new converter technology we're going to try, it seems like the converter companies all say the same thing... "How do you possibly spool this thing" Followed by "You want to make it tighter?" and of course ATI isn't going to let us down..."We'll make some parts to make it happen." Marty @ NCRC said the same thing...You've got a big block pump and the tightest stator with the exception of a Billet unit.
Other than that, I'll post some pics of some things were working on.
We have talked about the direction we need to go in ODR and with the way the class is heading you really need to have a big block with twins to hang with the guns in the 1/4 or 1/8 mile. We both feel that it is in our best interest to try to find a combo that will make power on demand while being efficient out the back door. In theory, we want a car that can 60' in the teens and have the powertrain that is efficient enough to have very little slippage(sub 4%) to keep the RPMs as low as possible will yeild a combo that is reliable. We will not be able to run with the big dogs with 1.25 60's. Our car doesn't make enough power to run with them out the back door.
I've gone over the chassis from front to back and eventhough it may be backyard built, mechanically its exactly where it needs to be.
We've started talking about switching turbos to something that spools alittle faster but makes more power. The idea about going down in turbo to a 101mm but upping the compression to 13.5:1 and setting the turbo on kill came up. Possibly some hybrid turbo components that would aid in spool time. The first second of the run is critical and thats where the focus is being put. Twin Promod 76/80s have came across the table. The trend of going to a bigger turbo just seems to make the 60's slower, trap speeds get bigger and no improvement in the ET. There are alot of options that we feel have merit but there is one way we can build the motor that seems to make the most sense.
Shawn and I talked about the little bit of data we got this year and frankly we're pretty happy with the numbers we have knowing the conditions. Chris Esterly from ATI has some new converter technology we're going to try, it seems like the converter companies all say the same thing... "How do you possibly spool this thing" Followed by "You want to make it tighter?" and of course ATI isn't going to let us down..."We'll make some parts to make it happen." Marty @ NCRC said the same thing...You've got a big block pump and the tightest stator with the exception of a Billet unit.
Other than that, I'll post some pics of some things were working on.
Last edited by Phil99vette; 10-13-2010 at 08:08 PM.
you aint telling me.
10-13-2010, 08:10 PM
#3569
Probably Big small block, small twins...Everyone will have to wait until March to find out.... Every log file I have looked at on a 114 shows the same boost characterics across the small block engine lineup(SBF/SBC/SB LS). They seem to be alittle harder to spool than the 106 but its much tougher to make them change boost level quick early in the run so a bigger single turbo is out of the question. A 114 might work in 1/8 mile racing if they had like a 1.20 exhaust housing.
10-13-2010, 08:21 PM
#3571
I've talked to a few guys and everyone thinks that to maximize a 114mm you really need a 500"+ motor that is correctly built to make that turbo work to its max potiential. I'm not saying it won't work on a 427 to 454, its just going to make getting sub 1.19 60's very tough. The biggest single we're running is the 106, any bigger and they get to laggy for the cubic inch we have available. Sure at 3 seconds when all the boost is in they roll but the 60' and 330' times are too important to waste.
10-13-2010, 08:28 PM
#3572
Makes sense what you're trying to do. You're focusing on the one part of the track and trying to make gains where the big BIG power cars, tend to overpower the track, or due to the exact reason that you won't go with the 114, can't get out any better then they are.
I agree with your philosphy of getting it done in the portion of the track that you are aiming to get the gains, as you know the rest is limited, so to speak due to the small block motor.
The problem too that you're facing is the actual weight of the turbo impellers, trying to get them wicked up to speed, sooner/faster. 2 smaller units may be a better way to go to accomplish what you want to do.
On an unrelated topic, are you still leaving the intercooler inside the car? I heard today that there's a rule change coming becuase of an intercooler that exploded on someone, sent the roof flying off a car... can't remember the guy's name for the life of me.
I agree with your philosphy of getting it done in the portion of the track that you are aiming to get the gains, as you know the rest is limited, so to speak due to the small block motor.
The problem too that you're facing is the actual weight of the turbo impellers, trying to get them wicked up to speed, sooner/faster. 2 smaller units may be a better way to go to accomplish what you want to do.
On an unrelated topic, are you still leaving the intercooler inside the car? I heard today that there's a rule change coming becuase of an intercooler that exploded on someone, sent the roof flying off a car... can't remember the guy's name for the life of me.
10-13-2010, 11:27 PM
#3574
Makes sense what you're trying to do. You're focusing on the one part of the track and trying to make gains where the big BIG power cars, tend to overpower the track, or due to the exact reason that you won't go with the 114, can't get out any better then they are.
I agree with your philosphy of getting it done in the portion of the track that you are aiming to get the gains, as you know the rest is limited, so to speak due to the small block motor.
The problem too that you're facing is the actual weight of the turbo impellers, trying to get them wicked up to speed, sooner/faster. 2 smaller units may be a better way to go to accomplish what you want to do.
On an unrelated topic, are you still leaving the intercooler inside the car? I heard today that there's a rule change coming becuase of an intercooler that exploded on someone, sent the roof flying off a car... can't remember the guy's name for the life of me.
I agree with your philosphy of getting it done in the portion of the track that you are aiming to get the gains, as you know the rest is limited, so to speak due to the small block motor.
The problem too that you're facing is the actual weight of the turbo impellers, trying to get them wicked up to speed, sooner/faster. 2 smaller units may be a better way to go to accomplish what you want to do.
On an unrelated topic, are you still leaving the intercooler inside the car? I heard today that there's a rule change coming becuase of an intercooler that exploded on someone, sent the roof flying off a car... can't remember the guy's name for the life of me.
They've had numerous IC's explode in car and launch windowns and body pannels, I would doubt they would outlaw them form being inside of the car.
10-14-2010, 07:21 AM
#3575
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Makes sense what you're trying to do. You're focusing on the one part of the track and trying to make gains where the big BIG power cars, tend to overpower the track, or due to the exact reason that you won't go with the 114, can't get out any better then they are.
I agree with your philosphy of getting it done in the portion of the track that you are aiming to get the gains, as you know the rest is limited, so to speak due to the small block motor.
The problem too that you're facing is the actual weight of the turbo impellers, trying to get them wicked up to speed, sooner/faster. 2 smaller units may be a better way to go to accomplish what you want to do.
On an unrelated topic, are you still leaving the intercooler inside the car? I heard today that there's a rule change coming becuase of an intercooler that exploded on someone, sent the roof flying off a car... can't remember the guy's name for the life of me.
I agree with your philosphy of getting it done in the portion of the track that you are aiming to get the gains, as you know the rest is limited, so to speak due to the small block motor.
The problem too that you're facing is the actual weight of the turbo impellers, trying to get them wicked up to speed, sooner/faster. 2 smaller units may be a better way to go to accomplish what you want to do.
On an unrelated topic, are you still leaving the intercooler inside the car? I heard today that there's a rule change coming becuase of an intercooler that exploded on someone, sent the roof flying off a car... can't remember the guy's name for the life of me.
10-14-2010, 07:25 AM
#3576
Yeah that's the guy. Probably a scary situation. Probably one of the reasons Moran started putting the TB's way back by the turbo's (if I remember correctly his car was the one I saw with them pretty close), but I don't know what stops the blades in the TB from getting bent from all that force either...
For sure it's a safety concern... last thing a guy needs is the intercooler turning into a grenade!
For sure it's a safety concern... last thing a guy needs is the intercooler turning into a grenade!
10-14-2010, 08:03 AM
#3578
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if the weld joints are properly gusseted there is no i/c problems. When you only weld the outside of the joint the flat surfaces will "tin can" and crack the weld from the inside out. if you could weld the inside as well that would eliminate this problem, but it's impossible to do that without bolting the piece on. so the next best solution is external gussets. It basically comes down to people not building the i/c properly.
10-14-2010, 08:13 AM
#3580
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I've talked to a few guys and everyone thinks that to maximize a 114mm you really need a 500"+ motor that is correctly built to make that turbo work to its max potiential. I'm not saying it won't work on a 427 to 454, its just going to make getting sub 1.19 60's very tough. The biggest single we're running is the 106, any bigger and they get to laggy for the cubic inch we have available. Sure at 3 seconds when all the boost is in they roll but the 60' and 330' times are too important to waste.