vette

Just curious, What class did you run????

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

So what is the next fastest car after the ARE Camaro? I am guessing the movement of the suspension pieces in question did not result in the huge gap between ARE's 8.5-second car and the next closest competitor. How many of the "other guys" (ARE competitors) even run in the 8-second range yet? None? One? That's what I thought. Then this entire post is complete crock of ****. Nothing against Brian or Jay, but if your car is soooo bad ***, then don't hide behind such miniscule rules to prtect yourself from losing. You can't tell me Wade's car is running a half-second faster because of the suspension mods.

Come on guys, you are clearly singleing one car out. No matter how you dress it up, you still have an ugly baby. If all you other guys were running 8.5's or 8.6's, then I could see this being contentious. But right now, it looks as if you are just afraid of losing to a superior LS1-based car.

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

Thanks to Todd for saying what alot of us slow guys have been thinking

Colonel

"You can't tell me Wade's car is running a half-second faster because of the suspension mods."

I don't think anyone is trying to say that his unique suspension mods account for a half second...or even a half tenth. So, I don't think it's fair to call this thread a crock of ****. The point that Jay and Madman are making is that this race is for stock style suspension and in their opinion, this car doesn't fall into that category regardless of if it runs 7s or 11s (irrelevant.)

Personally, I'd like to see ARE make the minor changes to get the car to fit the rules so that we can see it against the other "Big Dogs." I know my money would be on it.

MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

Reckless I see that we have gotten you upset. Myself and others are not scared of AREs car. That isnt the point here. I'm trying to set a standard on suspensions. Its my race so MY RULES.

vette

Post deleted by vette

Warbird

I remember last year when ARE's record was broken by an SBC car. Said owner of the new "top dog" record managed to slag ARE pretty hard at the event and over all of these boards later. A **** fight ensued, said owner later apologised for the incident, but it is still vivid in my memory.

During this whole time ARE said and did nothing but quietly went out and smashed that very short lived record all the while absorbing the abuse. ARE's answer to all the crap was simply make the car better and faster and they remain unseated to date. It seems to me that there is a good chance that the "big dogs" now feel that ARE has put the new record out of reach, so they have to find a way to make the car illegal.

The reality and sad ironic humour of this whole thread is that the ARE car far more closely resembles our own cars than any of the "big dog", ***** to the wall race cars that will be running at the event, change the cam add mufflers and the car is back to street. ARE sells the exact same block, heads and parts to their customers that they race with in the Silver Z. There is nothing exotic or out of reach on every part in there, just sound engineering. Outside of the inboard moved LCA's and 9", Wade's suspension is virtually identical to my daily driven street car, all the parts are BMR and I even have the same K-Frame up front.

ARE (and other shops) have gone a long way and invested a ton of money in R&D on our cars and have made the market what it is today.

Seems to me, Wade made one mistake when building the Silver Z, he cared about what it looks like as well and that bit him back. There is no real advantage to the suspension setup and lots of you guys seem to forget that the car wouldn't 60' for **** when it was running 8.70's, he upped the power witout altering the suspension and the car liked it.

The one thing I am looking forward to is heading out to TMP for the final OSCA event that he leads his class in. I have heard tell that since this is the last race in the series that the car will be set to kill, Hmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder if the record will get further away . Hell next year the "big dogs" will probably outlaw, LS1's and silver paint

Madman your right, it is your race, but it is total , please don't drink while you down there too much , the internet hangover might be a killer

vette

Had to delete it.. I don't think you boys could have took it...

MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

Warbird, and everyone else that DOESNOT understand trying to get standardization of the suspension rules. Any car with MOVED LCAs or shocks are not legal for NMCA street classes or any other stock suspended class in the country. We are trying to standardize rules for the future. Obviuosly ARE is the King with making power out of a LS1. We arenot questioning that. Make the car fit a standardized set of rules and you are more than welcome to come race.

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

Coming from an even slower guy, i'm just trying to understand how Wade/Dave can be allowed to run at Thunder shootout, but NOT in the Big Dog race. Am I missing something in terms of class rules? Is the ARE car running an "Outlaw" class that allows for such modifications? And wouldn't the SAME people in the Big Dog race be in that same "outlaw" class.

I do agree that if it does nothing but for looks, then the car could be changed back to run the race. and THEN, if it's still as fast, then maybe this series that people want to start, will allow this "modification".

On the other hand... the main argument here it seems is the altering/moving of a stock mounting point, correct? Than a weld in LCA relocation bracket is illegal in some respects. It's altering a stock mount in such a way that allows the geometry of the rear suspension to be changed to gain an advantage. Same thing as moving an LCA mounting point inward. Also, in terms of lowering the rear of the car for an aerodynamic advantage, if you use a different rear spring to accomplish this on a stock car, it is then common to see people welding in the relocation brackets to regain the same LCA angle. Also, like stated before, the weld in rear sway bars and torque arms mounting on a crossmember. Yeah they've been around for a long time, but what does that matter when we are talking about altering mounting points?

I know it's getting picky, but that is what seems to be going on here, in hopes of coming up with a standardized set of rules. Please don't take this as knocking Madman or any of the other guys putting this race together. I never put a race together. And even with that, i KNOW it takes a TON of hard work. i would just like to see ALL the fastest cars in the nation together duking it out in this race, as do the rest of slow(and broken ) enthusiasts.

Chris

Z8'S

iTrader: (6)

Hell put the car back to stock locating points and bring it down! I am NOT AFRAID OF THE CAR! We just want a level playing field.There is not one member on this board that can give a quailified answer on the advantages of the relocated pieces. We all know that the car is awesome looking as it sits , so we wont laugh at it if it looks more like ours. If these changes dont effect the performance then you are in for a pretty good payday!Hell I have nothing to lose $380 of my $500 entry is your money I won at B.G

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

Not a problem with standardizing rules Brian. I get all that stuff. I guess there are two valid angles in this arguement.

#1 - Standardized rules for f-bodied suspension, but anything else goes

and

#2 - LS1 Based f-body with slightly modified suspension that would lay the smack down on all cars in #1.

Both sides have an equal arguement. On one hand, standardization is important, and it is. On the other hand, going all out with an LS1 car is important, regardles of a slight mod to the chassis, which is equally important to us "less purist" racers.

Standardization is indeed important for a racing series. If the ultimate goal of the "big dog" race is to establish suspension rules for some kind of upcoming racing series that does not exist yet, then so be it.

Or if the idea behind the "big dog" race is to find out who the "big dog" is, then the rule does not make sense. And for that matter, I may not either

Billingsley Racing

iTrader: (4)

#2 - LS1 Based f-body with slightly modified suspension that would lay the smack down on all cars in #1.

The key here is "slightly modified". Does anyone know what has actually been done to this car? I have seen Dave and/or Wade state that the lca's and shocks have been moved in 1-2". The question is, why do this when it has absolutely no relationship to tire placement and ride height? From the pictures I have seen, the tire is tucked well inside the wheelwell. To accomplish this with the tire that is used, both the spring and frame would also have to be relocated, not "just the shocks and lca's". All of this would require a fair amount of work and might not be able to be returned to stock. Again, this is only speculation because I have not seen the car in person.

Madman has already made the offer of looking at pictures of the items in question, but as of now has not recieved any. This either means that ARE is not interested in attending anyway, or that the car cannot be put back to it's stock configuration.

As for the non-stock torque arms and anti-roll bars, keep in mind that both of these are replacing existing components on the car. The torque arms have heavier crossmembers and mounting hardware because the production equipment is far too weak. Same goes for the anti-roll bars. These parts are on most cars and are all readily available from several sources. How many cars similar to the ARE car are there? None that I know of. If it were an easy modification, why is it the only one and why not simply put it back?

Again, Wade, Dave, and ARE crew: I applaude your accomplishments with your machine, and as I said before, 8.5's is fast no matter how you slice it, especially from an LS1 engine. If your car can be put back to satisfy the rules as stated for "the shootout", then you are more than welcome to come down and take the money.
Jay Billingsley

99taws6

iTrader: (2)

I am by no means anywhere near the level to worry about this suspension debate, but this statement reminds me so much of the "Fine, I am taking my ball and going home" statement if I ever heard one....

Run what you brung, hope you brung enough is the motto of todays racers....

CHRISPY

I remember MADMAN saying that a while ago. No more I guess

What happened to all the **** you were talking before MADMAN?

You would think you would allow an exception for the fastest car and you to line up?

How does PAIN's car factor into all this with his whole car lengthened? Is he allowed to compete?

I guess the old resleeved LS1 block with stock PCM is scaring all your SBC guys? LOL!

Some of us here do not have short memories. We remember all the smack talking/insults you hurled around before.

RyanJ

uh, I see a lot of talk like the ARE 8.5x car is the fastest...didn't Madman run an 8.5x or 8.6x months ago?? That kind of rules out Reckless's #1 #2 stuff....

IIIIFFFFF ARE is SOOOOOO good and only SLIGHTLY modified the suspension then they can nut up and POST THE FRICKEN PICS!!!!!

MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

Chris I'm still here and can talk sh*t with the best of yall. This race has nothing to do with me personally. We have 7 cars who have stock suspension, the car you nuthug on(See I can still talk ****, no offense Chris I'm just proving a point) is by itself. Do we promote a race for ARE and let them race for $1000.00(Being that I would be the only other car) or have a race for $4000.00 and have 8 cars in.

Chris you and others are barking up the wrong tree. If yall wanted the ARE car to run why dont you go over and take pics and email them to me or Jay and lets get this childishy argument over with. I have pics from 3 other cars that we have not allowed because it isnt in the spirit of the rules.

MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

Ryan J wrong car on the 8.5 that was a customers 81 camaro not mine.

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Wade,Dave if you guys are reading,pull the top-end off your shop car put it on my 422 and I'll make a trip down south and mop up.We can split the winnings.My car would pass tech.If you guys don't want to do that just finish my car and I'll go run some hi-8s with my own engine.If you can put your car back to stock location please do-so and head down.I would like to see a Big Dog shoot-out but it would be kinda weak without having the Biggest Dog. :p Madman while I don't necessarily agree with your rules,I understand the reasoning behind it and appreciate you putting something together.I may not be ready for this trip but I will be running with the big dogs soon.

OSR 1

I have a question ?
all the people that are pissed how would you feel if you paid 500.00 to enter a race and lost to a car that didnt fit the spirit of the rules
answer to your self honestly
also I have a feeling that next year anybody who puts on a race next year will probally follow these new rules ,thunder is a stand up company and probally doesnt want to change a month before the race.\
the last thing I cant understand is why not put it back to stock and prove a point.