Detoxx03

iTrader: (14)

This is perfect for the FAST haters and naysayers.

BrianC98Z28

iTrader: (11)

good comparisons... only other thing wouldve been a ported fast setup and see what itd do. either way great comparisons.

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

excellent comparison,
imo a 85mm 3 bolt pattern tb should have been used with the ls6. even one of the summit brand ones.

w3s1c0a5t

iTrader: (3)

You guys really think 9hp over the curve on an ENGINE dyno is that big a difference once you install an engine?

lilbuddy1587

iTrader: (1)

Are you blind or just that ignorant? There's what looks to be 15-20hp difference throughout the curve and 20-30tq difference until around 6500 RPM where the "small 9hp" difference is seen. Hell, the STOCK ls6 intake (with a much smaller TB) was dead nuts with the PP intake until 6000, SIX THOUSAND rpms. That's sad for the PP intake IMO.

DO NOT LOOK AT JUST PEAK NUMBERS

So again, the FAST is the clear victor here.

w3s1c0a5t

iTrader: (3)

Easy there cupcake... Try counting down from 10. If you can remember all the numbers in between. My post literally says "over the curve".

Their is no where on the graph where the damn torque is 30ft lbs Higher. Its even color coded for you sir. Maybe if we use neon colors?

Only around the 5500 to 6000 where its about 17 AT MOST. This is on a engine dyno. What do you think the difference will be once you apply the loss of drivetrain? And from the curve a tune i think would change the curve for each intake. Although that would PROBABLY add to the fast we cant tell.

Keep banging your head, Im hoping you cant reach the keyboard from the wall.

And im pretty aware the black line is higher. Like the one for the fast. Not the black lines for the graph (thought I should be clear for you) the line for the fast. So yes it won. But really worth it over an ls6 with a PP throttle body? I honestly dont think so from this graph. But as i said, i think with tuning the fast would have probably pulled farther ahead.

Enjoy your composite 1600$ intake.

Go Go Gadget FLAME SUIT.

lilbuddy1587

iTrader: (1)

Oh that's just cute right there.. Cupcake...

Wow, neon colors? First you call me cupcake and then you bring neon colors into the conversation?

It may not be 30ft/lbs higher as I was eyeballing it(mistakes happen) but I'll plot it out and break it down for you so that you can see the numbers for yourself, okay?

Here's the torque numbers -
4100 (start): FAST - 420 PP - 415 +5
4200: FAST - 423 PP - 412 +11
4300: FAST - 428 PP - 416 +12
4400: FAST - 435 PP - 423 +12
4500: FAST - 445 PP - 430 +15
4600: FAST - 451 PP - 435 +16
4700: FAST - 458 PP - 439 +19
4800: FAST - 458 PP - 444 +14
4900: FAST - 459 PP - 445 +14
5000: FAST - 458 PP - 448 +10
5500: FAST - 455 PP - 445 +10
5600: FAST - 455 PP - 442 +13
5700: FAST - 456 PP - 441 +15
5800: FAST - 456 PP - 441 +15
5900: FAST - 455 PP - 439 +16
6000: FAST - 451 PP - 437 +14

Those look like solid gains to me? Just a smidge more than 17 but none the less, that's still pretty damn good. As far as drive train losses go, the gains will still be the same. Of course the total HP/TQ output is going to change but the results will not.

Wow, the genius in this little tidbit is just GREAT! Do you write your own material?

It's plenty clear, thanks for asking. Now, is it worth it over both intakes? The PP intake FOR SURE. The LS6 intake just needs a 90mm TB to be right back in line with the FAST. BUT, then you could just send the FAST out and have it professionally ported, throw an even larger TB on and from there, it would most certainly be murder. Right off the bat, the FAST has the advantage both in HP and TQ but it also has the advantage in that in can be modified to work even better. The same could be said about the PP intake (as far as porting goes) but we don't have any data of a ported PP intake to compare.


Money is not a valid variable. It is nothing more than a ricers excuse when they're grasping for straws. Any real racer or gear head will tell you, it takes money to make power, period.

w3s1c0a5t

iTrader: (3)

Money is not a variable.....

And you think anything I say is ignorant?

Money is a HUGE variable. How many people here would run the combo they do if it wasent for money?

We would all be in TT c6z's.... So everyone with a budget... you are not a real racer/gear head. lilbuddy1587 has spoken.


Well since you broke it down the avg was 13.7... How much you wanna bet the gain is closer to 10-11 once you bolt up the motor?

WOW.... Those are some HUGE GAINS.

No one( me Included) thinks that the fast doesnt make more power than the ls6 or PP.

Did this graph show anything other than that? No sir.

We all agree fast is the best intake. But if this graph is a true representation of the gains I think that the niche that would really have a justification for this intake is much smaller than most think. According to this. MOST people are better off doing a ls6 intake cleaning it up and PP the throttle body. Their are plenty of places to spend the cash on an fbody.

The only real point I was asking about was the amount of people who seemed to think this graph shows how wonderful the fast really is. I disagreed. Was actually asking a question to see if i had missed something.

And I was rude in my last post. I admit.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

How anyone can't be blown away with the difference the FAST makes out of the box borders on ridiculous.

Go find all that missing torque and power under the curve (not to mention peak gains) buy buying other go fast parts and let me know how much you seriously spend chasing it.....I will be holding my breath waiting for my shoe phone to ring.

Not to mention this is a stock FAST comparo making the gains even more impressive (a properly ported unit could have added 10/10 to the mix without breaking a sweat).

Yes....the FAST isnt cheap, but it still offers you VALUE.

You spend a little more money to get alot more performance.....think of it as buying two mods if it makes your wallet feel any better. Do the math....if you look at the average power and torque gains I would bet it offers more power per dollar spent....you just have to get over spending a little more money.

Show me a really hard running LS engine that's clearly an above average performer (on the chassis dyno and/or the dragstrip) and I will bet you nine out of ten of them are running a FAST.....and half of those guys probably a ported version.

You gotta pay to play (whether some of you will want to admit it or not), and if you want to play with the big dogs, this intake still kicks azz and offers alot of value for those willing to open their eyes wide enough to see it. I have a much bigger issue with go fast parts that cost alot of money and dont offer much value, some of them potentially putting you in negative territory power wise and you paid for the priviledge. Save your money for six months longer if thats what it takes....in the end if your the type that doesnt like leaving big chunks of power under the table, this is just one of those mods you need to own till another company makes something better or comparable for less money.

Good comparo....kudos to the OP for taking the time to do it and share the results

-Tony

w3s1c0a5t

iTrader: (3)

I do agree on some accounts. The intake is very good, I agree. I just thinks its a lot like aftermarket heads. Great performers and a consistent performer. But again I think the price tag involved is High. Not that its not a value but i think that the niche of people that are actually going to benefit from spending their money on them is small.

I looked at vengeance and its 1550$ for a ported fast 92. honestly thats cheaper than i thought.

The thing that really makes me reluctant is the number of combo's with ls6 PP throttle body and stock casting heads that lay down great power. Their are lots of people with the fast and big money heads that lay down very similar numbers.

What i would really love to see is a good apples to apples of a 346...

1) Good set of stock casting ported heads matching cam tpis ls6 intake 90 mm TB

2) set of afr or tf heads fast and a matching cam.

with the same dyno same tuner. To REALLY see what value these items carry.

Honestly my opinion doesnt really matter a lot. People are going to back you tony, also fast wont have my business as it is as i have my combo layed out and am putting it together in aug.

And at the very least thank you for being civil.

desalator089

iTrader: (5)

for the money for a fast intake yea its up there compared to others but still it offers better numbers. and i mean if u got the money want want a few extra ponies then go for it if not then just go with the others.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Not a problem but I must emphasize that the gains are real and very consistant.....

I have helped more people with a ported FAST over the last few years than I can remember at this point and the bulk of them have seen 20 - 25 RWHP over an LS6 set-up and closer to 30 over an LS1 / LS2 intake due to the weaker baseline manifolds. All of them had significant torque gains and area under the curve gains as well. This is a big chunk of power without the negatives assosciated with it say if you were trying to get the same type of peak gains via a cam swap which would of course destroy the bottom end and drivability....not to mention the FAST would still kill it if you were evaluating average power gains which is really what most people should focus on anyway. Thats whats more in your face when you move into a stroker motor.....not so much the peak gains from the swap which could be marginal given the same induction and exhaust anyway.

I will bet you all those hard running other combo's you speak of would run alot harder with a properly ported FAST on it and even stock out of the box still be a stronger running combination with the FAST.

To each his own guys, but the amount of irrufutable evidence concerning the effectiveness of this intake is really only a few search clicks away if you type in the right keywords. Type in "Mamo" and "ported FAST" and see how many positive responses, threads, dyno graghs you can find.....then look for some negative results. All the proof/information you need is right there if you take the time to look hard enough. The only so-so results have been people with stock heads but I have been preaching for years that for the FAST to be a more effective swap, the stock intake must represent a large restriction as it does once youve bolted a really kick *** set of head underneath it (and then it cant keep up ultimately choking off alot of the larger peak airflow numbers the better heads can now provide). Even in that case some guys have seen approaching 20 RWHP with a ported intake swap.

I find it bizarre that the effectiveness of the FAST is even still debated.....whether you want to drop dime or not is certainly always an internal debate and a personal decision that needs to be made, but whether its an effective upgrade or not at this point really isnt IMO.

-Tony

w3s1c0a5t

iTrader: (3)

I agree the last paragraph is a good summary.

I think a lot of it is that the fast really needs to be ported. From what your saying it nearly doubles the gains for a few hundred bucks. I think the "value" as you put it would be much more in line once ported vs out of the box.