Want trq in a H/C 346? See results
#61
Banned
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I give them the power. What they do with it is up to them. If you were smart enough, you would realize this. This guy has had problems driving the car. He's bent wheel studs twice now :?: No shift light and well he just needs to be able to drive it. Last I heard he damaged the motor and #7 is dead.
For what it's worth, my T/A put down 486 and ran 9.78 @ 139. Care to argue with that? It's not always the power but what you do with it that counts. I have another SS that put down a bit more and runs 9.50 @ 140.
For what it's worth, my T/A put down 486 and ran 9.78 @ 139. Care to argue with that? It's not always the power but what you do with it that counts. I have another SS that put down a bit more and runs 9.50 @ 140.
#62
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This thread is a trip. Who cares, If a combo works it works. My car is faster every time I go to the track on a REVERSE SPLIT CAM setup that is more than 5 years old. Same springs same everything. Put a bullet in this one.
#67
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I don't see why so many people are getting worked up over this at all...
If I had it to do over I'd get a different cam (for several reasons) but I don't get why people have been so pissy about this subject lately.
IMO until someone man's up and does a back to back comparison it serves no real point other than ego stroking and being "right".
Just my $.02
If I had it to do over I'd get a different cam (for several reasons) but I don't get why people have been so pissy about this subject lately.
IMO until someone man's up and does a back to back comparison it serves no real point other than ego stroking and being "right".
Just my $.02
#68
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
Guys,
I think that in all of this the main point is lost.
Reverse split have a place in certain combos for undercurve power. The myth that they take a nose dive after peak has been dismissed. That depends on the VEs and it can carry well into the rpms.
But there are limits, at a certain point exhaust will have to be increased.
Now, the hole discussion and argument was that RS cams are worthless. They are not.
It all depends on the combination of parts at use.
It is just that some poeple are so boxed in their beliefs that they utterly dismiss out of box thinking.
Key word here is not RS or SS, key word is combo. Combo is where we should focus and that is where we make decisions on the cam specs. (cam specs being lobes chosen, durations, LSA and ICL (basicaly VEs).
To sum it up, I never said RS cams are the best in an all out optimum combination. I said that RS cams have their place in certain combinations. That is also relative to the powerband desired and (important) which part of the band you want to use. (this has been proven)
I hope this clears it a little.
I think that in all of this the main point is lost.
Reverse split have a place in certain combos for undercurve power. The myth that they take a nose dive after peak has been dismissed. That depends on the VEs and it can carry well into the rpms.
But there are limits, at a certain point exhaust will have to be increased.
Now, the hole discussion and argument was that RS cams are worthless. They are not.
It all depends on the combination of parts at use.
It is just that some poeple are so boxed in their beliefs that they utterly dismiss out of box thinking.
Key word here is not RS or SS, key word is combo. Combo is where we should focus and that is where we make decisions on the cam specs. (cam specs being lobes chosen, durations, LSA and ICL (basicaly VEs).
To sum it up, I never said RS cams are the best in an all out optimum combination. I said that RS cams have their place in certain combinations. That is also relative to the powerband desired and (important) which part of the band you want to use. (this has been proven)
I hope this clears it a little.
#69
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I think it sums it up perfectly. I could have went with a different standard split cam, but wanted to try something different. I wanted Tq early, didn't really want to spin the engine too high, and decent power up top.
I had this cam spec'd for "cam only". For Cam only, I thought it made nice power and had a good graph.
I wasn't really sure what would happen once I added the other stuff. I was pleasantly surprised. The car did what I was asking for the first time, and even more than I could have expected after the last set of mods.
I'm happy with it. But I am in no means saying that others should go the route that we did. I just put this up there for those who already had a RS cam and were thinking about adding heads.
I had this cam spec'd for "cam only". For Cam only, I thought it made nice power and had a good graph.
I wasn't really sure what would happen once I added the other stuff. I was pleasantly surprised. The car did what I was asking for the first time, and even more than I could have expected after the last set of mods.
I'm happy with it. But I am in no means saying that others should go the route that we did. I just put this up there for those who already had a RS cam and were thinking about adding heads.
#70
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Well I'm glad you posted as well as Predator giving his insight to why he designed and spec'd this cam. There are far and few graphs on the El Torro and am looking forward to the nice torque it provides. This powerband falls right in line with my style of driving, so I know it will work well for me.
Oh yeah, UPS just dropped off the heads, I will be dropping you a PM soon Pred on my build, looking forward to talking with ya.
Oh yeah, UPS just dropped off the heads, I will be dropping you a PM soon Pred on my build, looking forward to talking with ya.
#71
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Guys,
I think that in all of this the main point is lost.
Reverse split have a place in certain combos for undercurve power. The myth that they take a nose dive after peak has been dismissed. That depends on the VEs and it can carry well into the rpms.
But there are limits, at a certain point exhaust will have to be increased.
Now, the hole discussion and argument was that RS cams are worthless. They are not.
It all depends on the combination of parts at use.
It is just that some poeple are so boxed in their beliefs that they utterly dismiss out of box thinking.
Key word here is not RS or SS, key word is combo. Combo is where we should focus and that is where we make decisions on the cam specs. (cam specs being lobes chosen, durations, LSA and ICL (basicaly VEs).
To sum it up, I never said RS cams are the best in an all out optimum combination. I said that RS cams have their place in certain combinations. That is also relative to the powerband desired and (important) which part of the band you want to use. (this has been proven)
I hope this clears it a little.
I think that in all of this the main point is lost.
Reverse split have a place in certain combos for undercurve power. The myth that they take a nose dive after peak has been dismissed. That depends on the VEs and it can carry well into the rpms.
But there are limits, at a certain point exhaust will have to be increased.
Now, the hole discussion and argument was that RS cams are worthless. They are not.
It all depends on the combination of parts at use.
It is just that some poeple are so boxed in their beliefs that they utterly dismiss out of box thinking.
Key word here is not RS or SS, key word is combo. Combo is where we should focus and that is where we make decisions on the cam specs. (cam specs being lobes chosen, durations, LSA and ICL (basicaly VEs).
To sum it up, I never said RS cams are the best in an all out optimum combination. I said that RS cams have their place in certain combinations. That is also relative to the powerband desired and (important) which part of the band you want to use. (this has been proven)
I hope this clears it a little.
if you follow the Engine Masters competition,the last winner ran a crazy RS..
plus the first winner,Joe Sherman, ran a single pattern cam but with 1.6 rockers on the intake and 1.5 rockers on the exhaust..so in effect made it a very small RS off the seat..the cam actually used intake lobes for both the intake and exhaust..things that make you go hmm..
#72
LS1 Tech Administrator
iTrader: (14)
Engine Masters Challenge is a very special competition that awarded the prize to the engine combo that made the most power between 2500-6500 rpm. Basically, all the past winners proved that whoever made the biggest power at 2500 rpm usually took home the prize.
Making big power at 2500 rpm takes a very different engine combo than an all-out race motor. Yes, reverse splits have their place in this (low) rpm-limited competition.
In 2009, the rules have changed to a 3000-7000 rpm window. You may start seeing some different combos because of the rule change. Here's a funny story. To show you how much the cam timing is compromised to work well in the 2500-6500 rpm competition, the small block Ford from The School of Automotive Machinists is reported to make over 100 hp more (with no other changes), just by installing a cam biased more toward making maximum power. Just a hint (it wasn't a reverse split cam).
Making big power at 2500 rpm takes a very different engine combo than an all-out race motor. Yes, reverse splits have their place in this (low) rpm-limited competition.
In 2009, the rules have changed to a 3000-7000 rpm window. You may start seeing some different combos because of the rule change. Here's a funny story. To show you how much the cam timing is compromised to work well in the 2500-6500 rpm competition, the small block Ford from The School of Automotive Machinists is reported to make over 100 hp more (with no other changes), just by installing a cam biased more toward making maximum power. Just a hint (it wasn't a reverse split cam).
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#73
I was talking with Joe Sherman about his engine master motor that had the single pattern camshaft. Anyways he told me how much more power it made when he switched camshafts afterwards back at the shop. I don't remember how much more power it made but it was quite abit. By the way I'm installing the crankshaft from that motor in my new build. This just follows what up on what Patrick said.
#74
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yep,i realize the Engine Masters deal is a little different than what you would normally see on the street..i have wondered what those motors would put out with a few changes to them...
#75
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
Engine Masters Challenge is a very special competition that awarded the prize to the engine combo that made the most power between 2500-6500 rpm. Basically, all the past winners proved that whoever made the biggest power at 2500 rpm usually took home the prize.
Making big power at 2500 rpm takes a very different engine combo than an all-out race motor. Yes, reverse splits have their place in this (low) rpm-limited competition.
In 2009, the rules have changed to a 3000-7000 rpm window. You may start seeing some different combos because of the rule change. Here's a funny story. To show you how much the cam timing is compromised to work well in the 2500-6500 rpm competition, the small block Ford from The School of Automotive Machinists is reported to make over 100 hp more (with no other changes), just by installing a cam biased more toward making maximum power. Just a hint (it wasn't a reverse split cam).
Making big power at 2500 rpm takes a very different engine combo than an all-out race motor. Yes, reverse splits have their place in this (low) rpm-limited competition.
In 2009, the rules have changed to a 3000-7000 rpm window. You may start seeing some different combos because of the rule change. Here's a funny story. To show you how much the cam timing is compromised to work well in the 2500-6500 rpm competition, the small block Ford from The School of Automotive Machinists is reported to make over 100 hp more (with no other changes), just by installing a cam biased more toward making maximum power. Just a hint (it wasn't a reverse split cam).
What I like about them is the high average trq and Hp that can be harnessed, I find that characteristic very suitable fo street and occasional strip.
As Patrick mentions, RS here is not about making all out maximum power (by doing that you are trading off something else) but about overall power.
#76
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (3)
That would not be a good comparison if you've got a restricted intake valve size...Given a motor with no restrictions, standard split or square cam will wipe its *** clean. its like porting an intake port real nice but sticking a 1.88 intake valve in it when measurements for the port would really shine with a 2.08 valve for instance. Reverse split would favor this setup for instance.
[/rant]
And as far as your "pissing outside" statement, most people **** inside. In the toilet.
#77
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (71)
What do you consider massive torque? My setup made pretty good power, especially when you consider it was a new motor with budget minded heads. I am running just under 11.5:1 compression and as the cam has a 112+4 lsa it has a 108 ICL so it makes its peak kind of low but the torque is awesome and the car runs great.
#78
What do you consider massive torque? My setup made pretty good power, especially when you consider it was a new motor with budget minded heads. I am running just under 11.5:1 compression and as the cam has a 112+4 lsa it has a 108 ICL so it makes its peak kind of low but the torque is awesome and the car runs great.