'02 Camaro SS M6 458rwhp/421rwtq !!!
07-12-2009, 05:42 PM
#41
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Burbs of Detroit
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Maybe the OP can shed some light on the tune. How much timing are you commanding ? We already cleared up that your compression is 11.1 to 1 vs 11.5 to 1 or higher like many of the 500 rwhp cars. How much timing and are you experiencing any knock and if so where?
07-12-2009, 06:27 PM
#43
10 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Okinawa, Japan
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ron, your Vindicator and TFS 500rwhp cars were 59cc heads IIRC...please confirm...I have 61cc heads and .054 MLS gaskets...on my custom cam sheet PatG calculated Static CR at 11.07:1....TEA said the same...11:1...how can the addition ~.012 of mill not increase the CR ANY?
Please post the dyno sheet of the C5Z that you guys did that was 500rwhp plus with the Vindicator...i checked your site you used to have a list of mods under that car (red z06 i believe) anyways it was run to 7000+ and held power good...Doug if you think Marc and I are bashing VR were not...were trying to point out something to the OP with his build (power peak not where it should be) was the cam degreed or doctored? a 240 244 cam 112ICL no way should peak at 6200...shoot its smaller VR brother grind from VR the VRX5 peaked at 6500 in my car
Please post the dyno sheet of the C5Z that you guys did that was 500rwhp plus with the Vindicator...i checked your site you used to have a list of mods under that car (red z06 i believe) anyways it was run to 7000+ and held power good...Doug if you think Marc and I are bashing VR were not...were trying to point out something to the OP with his build (power peak not where it should be) was the cam degreed or doctored? a 240 244 cam 112ICL no way should peak at 6200...shoot its smaller VR brother grind from VR the VRX5 peaked at 6500 in my car
07-12-2009, 07:42 PM
#44
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Burbs of Detroit
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I agree on the cam peaking early. The OP himself said he was going to check and see if the cam was installed straight up.
Now help me, if you retard the cam it peaks earlier and gains lowend tq, if you advance the cam you should peak later and gain peak hp. Just want to make sure I am not operating under false pretenses here.
Now help me, if you retard the cam it peaks earlier and gains lowend tq, if you advance the cam you should peak later and gain peak hp. Just want to make sure I am not operating under false pretenses here.
07-12-2009, 07:54 PM
#45
Marc, maybe you should go back and read my previous post. Already explained it. One more time. I am speculating that less timing approx 8* and 3-5 tenths less compression would/should explain the 30+ rwhp that is missing from a lot of the Vengeance installed tfs/vindicator combos.
Whether or not this combo should make 500rwhp or ever really has is something else entirely.
07-12-2009, 08:51 PM
#48
12 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its a good thing dynos dont win races-get that beeast to the track and tell the rest of the story. Street fuel is formulated for that-leaded fuel would be great-xcept for your O2s. Isnt the fuel in the mid-east still leaded? its hot and humid this time of year. the air is heavy and hard to breath. Go out and shut down punks running N2O-lol. its great to turn low numbers N/A.
07-12-2009, 09:09 PM
#50
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Burbs of Detroit
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
07-13-2009, 12:18 AM
#52
It peaks early because the pushrod length is not right. I'd also be willing to bet money if you posted a graph that didn't stop at 6300rpm, that line would fall like a rock after 6500. Typical trait of TF heads unless the valvetrain is set up EXACTLY right. There's no way in hell a 240 duration cam is peaking that early.
A readjustment of the valvetrain will probably yeild a higher # and put the power band in the position it's suppose to be in.
EDIT - Wow. Didn't notice the alum. flywheel and 10 bolt. Those #'s are extremely low. Readjust that valvetrain.
A readjustment of the valvetrain will probably yeild a higher # and put the power band in the position it's suppose to be in.
EDIT - Wow. Didn't notice the alum. flywheel and 10 bolt. Those #'s are extremely low. Readjust that valvetrain.
Last edited by Damian; 07-13-2009 at 09:34 AM.
07-13-2009, 06:24 AM
#53
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Burbs of Detroit
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It peaks early because the pushrod length is not right. I'd also be willing to bet money if you posted a graph that didn't stop at 6300rpm, that line would fall like a rock after 6500. Typical trait of TF heads unless the valvetrain is set up EXACTLY right. There's no way in hell a 240 duration cam is peaking that early.
A readjustment of the valvetrain will probably yeild a higher # and put the power band in the position it's suppose to be in.
A readjustment of the valvetrain will probably yeild a higher # and put the power band in the position it's suppose to be in.
I am sure whatever it is, Mike or Ron can walk the OP through the appropriate steps to correct the valvetrain setup if in fact it is the valvetrain being setup incorrectly.
07-13-2009, 08:42 AM
#54
11 Second Club
iTrader: (35)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NW Chicago burbs
Posts: 2,163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Typically its all started with a few bolt-ons Dyno'd 'n hits 343rwhp/351rwtq @ 13.1 AFR (Feels damn sluggish) a joke Mods List :
2002 Camaro SS M6 with a fresh stock LS1 motor 30k on odo
K&N FIPK
SLP 85mm Z06
Pacesetter LTs
ORY
Borla Adj. CB
SLP U/D pulley
Walbro 255L Fuel Pump
After going back and forth with my buddy & keep saying to him "Nah , Its not fast enuff" eventually i managed to convince him to take her to the next level.
Too many shops with non-scratched reputation but i thought to went with someone being well known & highly respected around here > Ron@Vengeance Just simply give the guy a shot & you could respectfully step a side to let him do the rest
I call it 346ci No joke Package
Trickflow CNC 215cc Heads Milled to 59cc
TrickFlow 7.500 Hardened Pushrods
Vindicator Camshaft (240/244 .608/.596 112+0)
Yella Terra 1.7 Ultra lite RR
ARP Heads Bolt
GM MLS Head Gaskets
FAST 92mm Intake Manifold Ported by Vengeance
Nick Williams 92mm Billet Throttlebody
Melling Hi Volume Oil Pump
LS2 Timing Chain
FORD Motorsport 42lb/hr Fuel Injectors
NGK TR55 Plugs
Not to mentioned all gaskets & T-Shirt which coming along the above Nice 'n Neat Ron
Spec Stg 3 Clutch & Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel(Thanks to Fraser@Speedinc)
Tick Performance Adjustable Clutch Master Cylinder (Thanks To Joey@TickPerfomance)
Stock Rear with 3.42
All being said things delivered on the time but customs took me forever to released the package from the airport (Ron knows damn well what i'm talking about, Don't ya) anyway three weeks later things tightened up @ Hisham's shop (Nicely done buddy) & here's the best part of it > The First Start :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZZC5yUnv4&fmt=18
The tuner tweaking a lil bit adjusting the idle @ 950rpm and gave her an extra dose of fuel so we can put a few miles on the new clutch.
A week later it was the moment of the truth (Dyno Tune) we were so excited except the owner he was too nervous LOL
A couple of runs to hit the bulls-eye with awesome driveability (Dyno Sheet) Got Torque ?! Hell yah :
PS all Runs were through wide open Borla CB so stay tuned for Idle/Dyno run/Driveability/WOT pass after E-Cutouts & SD tune been done.
A nice pic that i made for the 346ci No joke package :
At last i would like to thanks Ron@Vengeance & Mike@Vengeance & Hisham(Tech/Tuner) for their outstanding customer service...i know i'm not the first nor the last one to say this but ya guys ROCK
peace
Mods List :2002 Camaro SS M6 with a fresh stock LS1 motor 30k on odo
K&N FIPK
SLP 85mm Z06
Pacesetter LTs
ORY
Borla Adj. CB
SLP U/D pulley
Walbro 255L Fuel Pump
After going back and forth with my buddy & keep saying to him "Nah , Its not fast enuff" eventually i managed to convince him to take her to the next level.
Too many shops with non-scratched reputation but i thought to went with someone being well known & highly respected around here > Ron@Vengeance Just simply give the guy a shot & you could respectfully step a side to let him do the rest
I call it 346ci No joke Package
Trickflow CNC 215cc Heads Milled to 59cc
TrickFlow 7.500 Hardened Pushrods
Vindicator Camshaft (240/244 .608/.596 112+0)
Yella Terra 1.7 Ultra lite RR
ARP Heads Bolt
GM MLS Head Gaskets
FAST 92mm Intake Manifold Ported by Vengeance
Nick Williams 92mm Billet Throttlebody
Melling Hi Volume Oil Pump
LS2 Timing Chain
FORD Motorsport 42lb/hr Fuel Injectors
NGK TR55 Plugs
Not to mentioned all gaskets & T-Shirt which coming along the above Nice 'n Neat Ron
Spec Stg 3 Clutch & Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel(Thanks to Fraser@Speedinc)
Tick Performance Adjustable Clutch Master Cylinder (Thanks To Joey@TickPerfomance)
Stock Rear with 3.42
All being said things delivered on the time but customs took me forever to released the package from the airport (Ron knows damn well what i'm talking about, Don't ya)
anyway three weeks later things tightened up @ Hisham's shop (Nicely done buddy) & here's the best part of it > The First Start :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZZC5yUnv4&fmt=18
The tuner tweaking a lil bit adjusting the idle @ 950rpm and gave her an extra dose of fuel so we can put a few miles on the new clutch.
A week later it was the moment of the truth (Dyno Tune) we were so excited except the owner he was too nervous LOL
A couple of runs to hit the bulls-eye with awesome driveability (Dyno Sheet) Got Torque ?! Hell yah :
PS all Runs were through wide open Borla CB so stay tuned for Idle/Dyno run/Driveability/WOT pass after E-Cutouts & SD tune been done.
A nice pic that i made for the 346ci No joke package :
At last i would like to thanks Ron@Vengeance & Mike@Vengeance & Hisham(Tech/Tuner) for their outstanding customer service...i know i'm not the first nor the last one to say this but ya guys ROCK
peace
07-13-2009, 11:26 AM
#55
TECH Resident
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 910
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not about 500rwhp its about torque & Track ET buddy
Next mods :
1- UMI Chrome Moly Shock Tower Brace
2- UMI K-Member
3- UMI Complete Front A-Arm Kit (Adjustable Upper)
4- UMI Tubular Single Adjustable Panhard Bar
5- UMI Adjustable Torque Arm
6- UMI Tubular Subframe Connectors - Bolt-In
7- UMI Sway Bars Kit
8- Best Free Mod Nasty Weight Reduction
9- E-Cutouts
10 - SD tune
Enuff said
peace
Next mods :
1- UMI Chrome Moly Shock Tower Brace
2- UMI K-Member
3- UMI Complete Front A-Arm Kit (Adjustable Upper)
4- UMI Tubular Single Adjustable Panhard Bar
5- UMI Adjustable Torque Arm
6- UMI Tubular Subframe Connectors - Bolt-In
7- UMI Sway Bars Kit
8- Best Free Mod Nasty Weight Reduction
9- E-Cutouts
10 - SD tune
Enuff said
peace
straights and curves 
07-13-2009, 12:15 PM
#57
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Somewhere I Belong
Posts: 2,906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Btw he just got a new baby so working on peaks power will be scheduled later Not yet buddy but 500rwhp hmm maybe x 2
Its a good thing dynos dont win races-get that beeast to the track and tell the rest of the story. Street fuel is formulated for that-leaded fuel would be great-xcept for your O2s. Isnt the fuel in the mid-east still leaded? its hot and humid this time of year. the air is heavy and hard to breath. Go out and shut down punks running N2O-lol. its great to turn low numbers N/A.
Yup its still through the Fragile rear
Looks like we have been saying the same thing man. I too was concerned why the power was lower then other cars with the exact same pkg. I was really trying to figure out the reason(s) myself, not defend Vengeance. The reputation Vengeance has built for themselves needs no defending. There results speak for them loud and clear. Perfect example, my car. I will go as far to speculate that if my short had been a PROLINE short and the compression had been where I originally wanted it at 11.8 to 1 I could've seen 560 rwhp 520 rwtq. Oh well that's just me being greedy.
I'll keep ya posted Doug
It peaks early because the pushrod length is not right. I'd also be willing to bet money if you posted a graph that didn't stop at 6300rpm, that line would fall like a rock after 6500. Typical trait of TF heads unless the valvetrain is set up EXACTLY right. There's no way in hell a 240 duration cam is peaking that early.
A readjustment of the valvetrain will probably yeild a higher # and put the power band in the position it's suppose to be in.
EDIT - Wow. Didn't notice the alum. flywheel and 10 bolt. Those #'s are extremely low. Readjust that valvetrain.
A readjustment of the valvetrain will probably yeild a higher # and put the power band in the position it's suppose to be in.
EDIT - Wow. Didn't notice the alum. flywheel and 10 bolt. Those #'s are extremely low. Readjust that valvetrain.
Feels damn good buddy but we starting to have slight issue with tranny
Hell yah buddy all seasons warrior
peace
