DYNO RESULTS - Patriot LS6 style heads + G5X-3 cam...
11-24-2003, 05:52 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Hannibal
Gomer - why is the car down?
, but I'm an Electrical Engineer and I have been working on a progressive nitrous controller of my own design and I have been using my car to test it on... I have only been running 50 and 75hp wet shots on it.. BUT I found out that when you accidentally turn on the nitrous solenoid and forget to turn on the fuel solenoid, the head gaskets don't like it too much 
I have since solved that problem, so maybe it won't happen again. It was my fault. I'm going to add some ARP head studs to it this time too.
11-24-2003, 06:05 AM
#43
Why don't you just wait till they get a pair of AFR's and port them?I'm sure that will be $3500-$4000 for you to spend 
I'm the same way with my cars.Do,redo,and do again.Now I'm in the process of rebuilding my wifes GN and a set of AFR's and direct port for my own car
I'm the same way with my cars.Do,redo,and do again.Now I'm in the process of rebuilding my wifes GN and a set of AFR's and direct port for my own car
11-24-2003, 06:43 AM
#44
I think the #'s look great. The problem I see is comparing dyno #'s from dyno to dyno. It's going to be a little different. Whether lower or higher. You want to know what you are really making..? Give us your TRUE raceweight. No guesses or estimates, but your TRUE raceweight and take her to the track. We can figure it out from there..
11-24-2003, 07:27 AM
#45
Originally Posted by VINCE
I think the #'s look great. The problem I see is comparing dyno #'s from dyno to dyno. It's going to be a little different. Whether lower or higher. You want to know what you are really making..? Give us your TRUE raceweight. No guesses or estimates, but your TRUE raceweight and take her to the track. We can figure it out from there..
Bruce
11-24-2003, 08:22 AM
#46
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Well the #'s are definately NOT BAD, but just not as high as expected. Another Vette Guy I know just added these heads on his 6-speed was also expecting more he got 386 RWHP with the following mods:
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( Patriot stage II Ls6 heads,TR224/561 114lsa,dyno tuned,slp double roller timing chain,dual crane valve springs,ported ls6 oil pump,pro cold carbon fiber twin flow,power duct,bbk 80mm throttle body, ls6 intake,flp long tube headers,high flow cats,x pipe,slp loud mouth)
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Again my PP 6.0 liter heads are on right now, but as soon as I get me center section on my 'Open Headers' car I will be able to drive it for a week and then dyno it and Post the Results.
My dyno will be a little hard to pinpoint the Numbers specifically from the heads because I did 3 mods at one time. I added a Bigger Cam a 228 .588 from my 224.563 (which from other dynos we did we saw pick up 12 rwhp) then added KOOKS LT Headers (Had no Cats Before) so I am not sure what to expect there, at least 12-15. Then the 6.0 Liter Patriots 59 CC with 11:1-11:3 compression, not sure of the exact compression but it is in the low 11's???
Again I am at 343 rwhp & 363 rwtq NOW. I will post my results in approx. 1 Week 
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( Patriot stage II Ls6 heads,TR224/561 114lsa,dyno tuned,slp double roller timing chain,dual crane valve springs,ported ls6 oil pump,pro cold carbon fiber twin flow,power duct,bbk 80mm throttle body, ls6 intake,flp long tube headers,high flow cats,x pipe,slp loud mouth)
-----------------------
Again my PP 6.0 liter heads are on right now, but as soon as I get me center section on my 'Open Headers' car I will be able to drive it for a week and then dyno it and Post the Results.
My dyno will be a little hard to pinpoint the Numbers specifically from the heads because I did 3 mods at one time. I added a Bigger Cam a 228 .588 from my 224.563 (which from other dynos we did we saw pick up 12 rwhp) then added KOOKS LT Headers (Had no Cats Before) so I am not sure what to expect there, at least 12-15. Then the 6.0 Liter Patriots 59 CC with 11:1-11:3 compression, not sure of the exact compression but it is in the low 11's???
Again I am at 343 rwhp & 363 rwtq NOW. I will post my results in approx. 1 Week
11-24-2003, 03:24 PM
#47
Originally Posted by VINCE
I think the #'s look great. The problem I see is comparing dyno #'s from dyno to dyno. It's going to be a little different. Whether lower or higher. You want to know what you are really making..? Give us your TRUE raceweight. No guesses or estimates, but your TRUE raceweight and take her to the track. We can figure it out from there..
11-24-2003, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
I bet more hp and tq can be gained in the tuning.....
The car fully tuned per the last dynos. I was also there to witness the results, I'd be disappointed much like Chris and Wade were. Better products are supposing to increase Hp/Tq, not decrease it......
11-24-2003, 04:53 PM
#50
Originally Posted by OBSSSD
Believe me there's no power left in the tuning 
I am "THE" tuner boyz
Chris
I am "THE" tuner boyz
Chris
..... Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....
Originally Posted by TVWILKES
If your looking for more power,have you tried different timing?I've tuned some cars that made more power with timing at 26 degree's than 30.And some liked 32 degree's the best.It all depends on the compression and how the swirl affect is in the chamber.
A case in point.I dyno'd a H/C Cartek car that pulled 440hp and only had 24 degree's of timing.That is what the combo liked.More timing doesn't alway's mean more power
I agree 100 %.With the new style chamber you have others have found better power with less timing.
A case in point.I dyno'd a H/C Cartek car that pulled 440hp and only had 24 degree's of timing.That is what the combo liked.More timing doesn't alway's mean more power
I agree 100 %.With the new style chamber you have others have found better power with less timing.
11-24-2003, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....
How much? Christmas is coming up pretty soon
11-24-2003, 05:10 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
I don't think I'd be so quick to call myself "THE" tuner if my "perfectly tuned" car was down ~50rwhp from where it should be ..... Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....
..... Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....
Usually when people tune they start out rich and lean it out until it doesn't make any more power and back it off to a safe compromise. Same thing with timing, I'm sure he already tried 24 degrees and upped it to 30 when it quit making power. Part of the tuning process is obviously trying different combinations out and settling on the best combination of timing & A/F while still being safe.
11-24-2003, 05:21 PM
#53
Originally Posted by JF WS6
So, you think he's going to find 50HP somewhere in 4 degrees of timing?
Like I said, keep us informed, I've been wrong before.....
11-24-2003, 05:50 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
I don't think I'd be so quick to call myself "THE" tuner if my "perfectly tuned" car was down ~50rwhp from where it should be ..... Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....
..... Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....He Has Tuned 50 Cars and is probably the best in the area. I knwo several people who had there car tuned by him AFTER they already paid to have it tuned by a shope and all were inpressed with the results. I am not saying people are always 100% right, but I mean come on, you ain't gonna find magic horsepower just by switching the timing
I am sure he will re check all the angles to see if it causes a change in the positive direction, but remeber when you tune YOUR OWN car (not that you can or do) just making a stement, you are going to spend all the time necasarry to get it right, even more than someone else's.
Hopefully you get it figured out and I knwo you want to. This thread isn't a bashing session for any vendors mentioned in here at all
it is just a report on the facts from His Personal Results. Again, I will provide mine as soon as I dyno and a fellow Corvette Guy on the forum got 386 RWHP with these heads on his 6-speed and was a little dissapointed, but said the car still felt liek a beast. After I post my results that will be another oiece of the puzzle that will help us all see a fuller picture. The more results we have from a wide sample of us gear heads, the better we will be able to determine what the "real world" numbers and gains we can all expect to achieve Later.
The Bandit..........................
11-24-2003, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
I don't think I'd be so quick to call myself "THE" tuner if my "perfectly tuned" car was down ~50rwhp from where it should be ..... Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....
..... Maybe you've tuned 100 cars to "perfection" in the past, but this car could need something different (as recommended by the head porter himself). I'd be willing to bet it is in the tuning. It would be much easier (and less costly) to have someone look at the tuning before you swap heads. Keep us informed, it will be interesting....He Has Tuned 50 Cars and is probably the best in the area. I know several people who had there car tuned by him AFTER they already paid to have it tuned by a shop one time, and all were really impressed with the results of his tune in comparison. I am not saying people are always 100% right, but I mean come on, you ain't gonna find magic horsepower just by switching the timing
I am sure he will re check all the angles to see if anything causes a change in a positive direction, but remeber when you tune YOUR OWN car (not that You Can or actually do, I am just making a statment) you are going to spend all the time necasarry to get it right. I mean no one does better work when it is on their own car, right????????????
Hopefully he gets it figured out and I know all of us also want to find out the answer. Again these numbers don't suck by any means, they just seem lower than what was expected. When the expectation is set high then people are sometimes dissapointed by the results. I am not saying that is what happened, but that is what is happening with all the replies in this thread. everyone thought there was going to be Excellent numbers and there are only Great numbers being posted.
This thread isn't a bashing session for any vendors mentioned in here at all
it is just a report on the facts from his Personal Results. Again, I will provide my results as soon as I dyno my car which will be done tomorrow in terms of picking it up, but I am not sure when it will be dynoed. At least by next week. I also follwed a thread on the Corvette Forum where a guy on the forum (pdd000) got 386 RWHP with these heads just last week on his 6-speed and was a little dissapointed with the numbers. He thought they would be much higher, but he did said the car still felt like a Beast.
After I post my results that will be another piece of the puzzle that will help us all see a more complete and acurate picture. The more results we have from a wide sample of guys runnign this combo, the better we will be able to determine what the "real world" numbers & gains we can all expect to achieve
Peace Out Fools
The Bandit..........................
Last edited by 2001 Red Coupe Bandit; 11-24-2003 at 06:01 PM.
11-24-2003, 06:30 PM
#56
Being a tuner myself and many sleepless nights thinking tuning there is 1 thing I've figured out .Some cars just don't put out the power you think they should.I've even tuned my own car with no MA,different ported ends,diff. MA's,different H/C's.Ussing different tuning techniques and everything I can think of.I have full access to a dyno anytime I need it too.Still my car does not dyno as high as people post on these boards.
Also drivetrains make a huge difference.I dyno'd before after my 12 bolt and lost 23hp/15tq.Lost another 5hp/3tq from a steel driveshaft.On another car they only lost 15hp/8tq from a 12 bolt and driveshaft.
Also I found that if you cool the car down to 120degree's and do 3 quick back to back pulls,the 3rd one will be about 10-15hp higher than a fully heated motor.Thats a dyno trick used sometimes.
Also drivetrains make a huge difference.I dyno'd before after my 12 bolt and lost 23hp/15tq.Lost another 5hp/3tq from a steel driveshaft.On another car they only lost 15hp/8tq from a 12 bolt and driveshaft.
Also I found that if you cool the car down to 120degree's and do 3 quick back to back pulls,the 3rd one will be about 10-15hp higher than a fully heated motor.Thats a dyno trick used sometimes.
11-24-2003, 06:37 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
Well, there is more to tuning than timing adjustments. Like you said, "Part of the tuning process is obviously trying different combinations out and settling on the best combination of timing & A/F while still being safe". Maybe more combonations need to be tried. Swapping and basically blaming heads is an awfully drastic measure at this point.....
Like I said, keep us informed, I've been wrong before.....
Like I said, keep us informed, I've been wrong before.....
I'll bet you right now that the car will pull the best hp run the exact way it is setup right now. The bet will be the loser pays Lou for the 3 hours dyno time @ $100/hr. If I lose I pay him - if you lose you pay him. If that isn't enough - I'll bet you another $300 on the side on top of that between me and you on the same exact bet.
You called me out so put your money where your mouth is. This is where the rubber meets the road
Chris
11-24-2003, 06:47 PM
#58
Originally Posted by OBSSSD
OK, I'll make you a bet Spanky. I've already to to Lou at LG and arranged to take the car there to let him dyno it in the most optimum conditions the way he thinks maximum numbers can be attained with no dyno tricks (he has turned out many 450-470 cars with his cam). We will dyno the car with 24,26,28, and 30 degrees timing. I'll let it cool down between each set of pulls for 30 minutes with the fans on in the car via a Tech 2.
I'll bet you right now that the car will pull the best hp run the exact way it is setup right now. The bet will be the loser pays Lou for the 3 hours dyno time @ $100/hr. If I lose I pay him - if you lose you pay him. If that isn't enough - I'll bet you another $300 on the side on top of that between me and you on the same exact bet.
You called me out so put your money where your mouth is. This is where the rubber meets the road
Chris
I'll bet you right now that the car will pull the best hp run the exact way it is setup right now. The bet will be the loser pays Lou for the 3 hours dyno time @ $100/hr. If I lose I pay him - if you lose you pay him. If that isn't enough - I'll bet you another $300 on the side on top of that between me and you on the same exact bet.
You called me out so put your money where your mouth is. This is where the rubber meets the road
Chris
Either way, post up the results, either way. I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong......
11-24-2003, 08:34 PM
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Just wanted to let everyone know, I have the same package except I'm on a 112 LSA. We went to install the heads today, and checked out the P to V clearance. There isn't squat on the the exhaust side. I'll be dropping off the block tomorrow to have the pistons flycut. OBSSsD, I sure hope you checked your clearance before you installed, and didn't just assume that everything was ok because you are running the cam with a 114 LSA. You might be in for a big surprise when you do remove the heads. Man that would really suck. Good luck with your setup, I hope you find the problem.
11-24-2003, 09:04 PM
#60
Originally Posted by WS6snake-eater
Just wanted to let everyone know, I have the same package except I'm on a 112 LSA. We went to install the heads today, and checked out the P to V clearance. There isn't squat on the the exhaust side. I'll be dropping off the block tomorrow to have the pistons flycut. OBSSsD, I sure hope you checked your clearance before you installed, and didn't just assume that everything was ok because you are running the cam with a 114 LSA. You might be in for a big surprise when you do remove the heads. Man that would really suck. Good luck with your setup, I hope you find the problem.
