LS3 Engine Dyno LSA & ICL Dyno Comparison!!
Thread Starter
LS1Tech Premium Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,229
Likes: 4
From: Texas!
LS3 Engine Dyno LSA & ICL Dyno Comparison!! I thought it might be a good idea to go ahead & post just a little bit of the data we've compiled from testing camshafts in our LS3 engine dyno mule. For this test we ran our 229/236 LS3 camshaft with TSP intake lobe & XFI exhaust lobe using different amounts of advance & two different lobe seperations. These tests were done same day back to back of each other in hopes of shining some light on what LSA & ICL does on a LS3 based engine. We have data from other size camshafts doing the same basic changes, but this test was just completed last week so I thought I'd go ahead & post this up.
These two camshafts were identical other than LSA & the cams ICL was verified for every test. This is probably the best side by side comparison to date that allows guys to see up close exactly what the different LSA's & ICL's do to the power curve on a LS3 engine.
This is the kind of data that we're working hard to put together for our customers. Anyone who doesn't like the results please don't shoot the messenger, all I did was install the cam & hold the throttle down!
Differences Graph Based on RPM
These two camshafts were identical other than LSA & the cams ICL was verified for every test. This is probably the best side by side comparison to date that allows guys to see up close exactly what the different LSA's & ICL's do to the power curve on a LS3 engine.
This is the kind of data that we're working hard to put together for our customers. Anyone who doesn't like the results please don't shoot the messenger, all I did was install the cam & hold the throttle down!
Differences Graph Based on RPM
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Good info. Confirms what we've been seeing on the chassis dyno for several years. The L92/LS3 heads don't like a lot of overlap which is why your average numbers were stronger with the 113LSA. They also respond to an earlier exhaust valve opening and earlier close (which reduced your pumping losses) which is why the +4 advance didn't hurt you as bad on the top-end as much as it helped in the low and mid-range. For a top-end oriented setup, this also shows how the L92/LS3 heads like a later intake valve opening and close.
This illustrates why it is crazy for people to disable their VVT setup on their L92s. The L92 really responds with an advanced cam at lower rpm and a retarded cam at higher rpm. Anyone who disables VVT and locks the sprocket at a set ICL is missing out on more power under the curve. Again, great tests results.
This illustrates why it is crazy for people to disable their VVT setup on their L92s. The L92 really responds with an advanced cam at lower rpm and a retarded cam at higher rpm. Anyone who disables VVT and locks the sprocket at a set ICL is missing out on more power under the curve. Again, great tests results.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
Good info. Confirms what we've been seeing on the chassis dyno for several years. The L92/LS3 heads don't like a lot of overlap which is why your average numbers were stronger with the 113LSA. They also respond to an earlier exhaust valve opening and earlier close (which reduced your pumping losses) which is why the +4 advance didn't hurt you as bad on the top-end as much as it helped in the low and mid-range. For a top-end oriented setup, this also shows how the L92/LS3 heads like a later intake valve opening and close.
This illustrates why it is crazy for people to disable their VVT setup on their L92s. The L92 really responds with an advanced cam at lower rpm and a retarded cam at higher rpm. Anyone who disables VVT and locks the sprocket at a set ICL is missing out on more power under the curve. Again, great tests results.
This illustrates why it is crazy for people to disable their VVT setup on their L92s. The L92 really responds with an advanced cam at lower rpm and a retarded cam at higher rpm. Anyone who disables VVT and locks the sprocket at a set ICL is missing out on more power under the curve. Again, great tests results.
Good insight
Jason is there any other way you can post those graphs in a different format, I love that you guys are doing all this testing I just can't really see the minute differences because the different colors lines all seem to be in the same spots but I can clearly see how the 113 held mid range tq. longest on average in your tests I just can't see the other lines and how they correspond to the x axis.
Thread Starter
LS1Tech Premium Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,229
Likes: 4
From: Texas!
I definitely agree with the VVT that feature is going to be bad ace in the A6 L99 applications!!
We're talking very small differences that before now people had to just speculate about. I have tons of data from different amounts of duration on the exhaust side. This exhaust duration is my favorite for this specific intake lobe.
We're talking very small differences that before now people had to just speculate about. I have tons of data from different amounts of duration on the exhaust side. This exhaust duration is my favorite for this specific intake lobe.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Good info. Confirms what we've been seeing on the chassis dyno for several years. The L92/LS3 heads don't like a lot of overlap which is why your average numbers were stronger with the 113LSA. They also respond to an earlier exhaust valve opening and earlier close (which reduced your pumping losses) which is why the +4 advance didn't hurt you as bad on the top-end as much as it helped in the low and mid-range. For a top-end oriented setup, this also shows how the L92/LS3 heads like a later intake valve opening and close.
This illustrates why it is crazy for people to disable their VVT setup on their L92s. The L92 really responds with an advanced cam at lower rpm and a retarded cam at higher rpm. Anyone who disables VVT and locks the sprocket at a set ICL is missing out on more power under the curve. Again, great tests results.
This illustrates why it is crazy for people to disable their VVT setup on their L92s. The L92 really responds with an advanced cam at lower rpm and a retarded cam at higher rpm. Anyone who disables VVT and locks the sprocket at a set ICL is missing out on more power under the curve. Again, great tests results.
How is VVT going to like boost? Good cam make nice torque down low while mataining good upper RPM
Trending Topics
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
wait I'm confused.... so what is the 'baseline' in your first chart? Is that a completely different (stock) cam? or just the same cam with different LSA?
Only reason I'm really curious is because I just finished putting a LY6 into my 94 Firebird Formula and even un-tuned with bigger 33# injectors and bolt-ons the overall power delivery is vastly superior to my old F13 cammed 2001 SS Camaro. I'm trying to get a good idea as to what I'll have to do to the cam timing to make the most out of the LY6 motor. Also, an idea of the power difference from JUST the variable overlap on these motors (both at low and high rpm).
edit: also, in the stock L92/LY6 tune - is there anything that can be improved cam timing-wise?
Only reason I'm really curious is because I just finished putting a LY6 into my 94 Firebird Formula and even un-tuned with bigger 33# injectors and bolt-ons the overall power delivery is vastly superior to my old F13 cammed 2001 SS Camaro. I'm trying to get a good idea as to what I'll have to do to the cam timing to make the most out of the LY6 motor. Also, an idea of the power difference from JUST the variable overlap on these motors (both at low and high rpm).
edit: also, in the stock L92/LY6 tune - is there anything that can be improved cam timing-wise?
Last edited by pillagenburn; Sep 15, 2009 at 12:54 PM.
We move each of cam's ICL manually on the dyno, typically testing each LSA on 4-6 ICL's
__________________
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
Thanks for the info, an aussie shop uses a cam similiar to MS3 and it is ground on 111-4 obviously for top end. I spoke to the guy today this car runs near 130mph at 4000pounds cam only its a 240-242-111 on 115 ICL yes thats right. I run this cam to by I advanced 8 degrees and he tells me it works better retarded makes it hold on up top. Was interesting to say the least as With smaller cams wider lsas work the bigger cams I would too think that wider lsa is optimal. I am unsure if opening later reduces reversion to a degree or just helps it hold on. Either way pump loses are minimal with such a big ex. The overlap is big and was thinking that the later ICL may indeed reduce reversion just unsure of that. It was his trial and error to find what works and now he sells the cam as GMM turbo killer. I am glad to finally see something coming along with dyno results.
It would be nice to see some MS3 cam LS3 results hint hint...
It would be nice to see some MS3 cam LS3 results hint hint...
