Shawn @ VA Speed

iTrader: (3)

send me an email with everything you can tell me about the engine and car.This will help figure out of there is more than one issue.The more detailed the better.

shawnm@vaspeed.com

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

I'd like to see the car and tune the way it is, with the cam that's in it.

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

Everyone wants to be like Kevin...

Shawn and Ed will get you straight. I'm sure Ed will want to see how much advance they were able to run. IMHO: The L92 heads like 28-30 degrees of timing up top.

BTW: Chris - 2C5S - made 500RWHP running a 232-234 112 cam. It may have been a fluke but there it is.

BTW2: Don't even think about the giant cam. It's definitely the wrong cam for the L92 heads.

ExceSSive

iTrader: (13)

As you can see from the average L92 set-ups and the actual and set-ups your numbers are definitely on the low side. Their may be more info in the other pages of the 408 thread...





One of the set-ups from the 400ci sticky...check the cam specks

RS777

iTrader: (1)

I didnt read through every post, but look at the name of the dyno, take a deep breath, spend $50 to dyno elsewhere. Dyno dynamics are great for tuning, but they read low. Your 400whp would be 440-460 on a dynojet and then drive from there to a dynapac (hub dyno) and add another 10%...

if that's the truth then the guys over at the DD are scaling their dyno graphs. CTRL+X = any correction you want on those dynos (not available on the newest model DD). At the bar screen, it'll tell you in one of the corners the correction factor. If its not scaled, then something is up with your dynojet. I've seen people all the time drive from a DD to a dynojet and gain 10-20% from the dyno and even much more on a hub dyno.

A perfect example is a new STI... Check out a dynodynamics dyno run stock (08 STI)... its around 228whp (300BHP). Yet perrin performance (hub style dyno) shows 287whp as their stock dyno run (300BHP). Both are new off the show room floor. Yes its AWD so its a little different, but you're talking 30% between 2 dynos on a bone stock car. Pretend its 1/2 that in this case... and dudes making 450-460whp instead of 400 and not feeling so bad. Probably still not where he wants to be, but much closer (trying ot make up 20-40whp instead of 100+). That and what dyno is his desired # coming from? Dynojet? Engine Dyno? Hub Dyno? Makes all the difference when you're playing the # game. That's why its best to do a before/after on the same dyno as the % of gain is there no matter how its scaled or how the dyno reads or etc (as long as before/after are scaled the same amount).

s346k

iTrader: (4)

regardless of the dyno reading, the fact remains that he hardly pulled a stock v with his setup. right now that's the only real world comparison we can make, all of the dyno talk is senseless. everyone knows his car should destroy most of what he encounters, especially a stock, 4door caddy.

it always sucks to invest a ton of time and money into something, only to be disappointed. stick with it, the fun in wrenching and racing is improvement, so in my eyes you've got your work cut out for you.

also, how did you get 11.4:1 compression from a -3cc piston and l92 heads?

xBRadX

iTrader: (1)

Great idea. Spend more $ to get inflated numbers from another dyno and still not have it run right.

This "numbers game" that people play really drives me nuts. I have the newer Dyno Dynamics digital unit (~1 yr old). When compared to manufacturers rated flywheel horsepower it seems to be pretty accurate. For example, a bone stock 2009 LS3 Corvette 6pd that I ran this past Saturday. What would you expect the LS3 to make at the rear wheels with a 10-15% drivetrain loss? I think it would've snuck over the 375 mark had I not cut the run short (see attachment). The sharp downward movement around 6000rpm is from decel happening prior to me stopping the plot.

OP- Good luck with the car. It looks like there are some able people around here to help you out. The only numbers to chase are ETs.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I have personally witnessed a 500rwhp car dyno less than 350 rwhp on a different dyno because of wheelspin. The cause was obvious, as the tires were greasy, the wheelwells were full of rubber, and the dyno rollers were glazed. The car still ran exactly the same on the street, however. How does your car run on the road?

RS777

iTrader: (1)

No genius, my point was that when you read the thread title "I've never been more disappointed in a car in my life" then it says:

He is basing his horrible experience off his low read # (and the shop and parts and similar off of the dyno #s). This happens nearly to EVERYONE who dynos on a dyno dynamics then compares to other cars that didn't (even 10% lower is 40whp). My simple point, which I guess you missed, was that maybe he should re-dyno on something that is more comparable to what he was expecting (and with a crew that isn't letting the tires slip... that could be ALL his missing hp right there, not a poorly running vehicle). Whereas his 413whp would be more like 450-460whp and even though that may still be low, I bet the title wouldn't be "I have never been more disappointed with a car in my life", but more along the lines "I am missing 30-50whp" not 100, but maybe spending $40-50 for a re-dyno is stupid compared to having to spend shop rate to find a problem that may not exist.

Like everyone else has said, track times are what matters, but I am trying to help the guy know that if he wants the #, dyno elsewhere. That's all... because people are basing his "problem" off of low dyno #s (and there's even wheel spin/etc in the mix)...

And please don't start with this... this is what EVERY low reading dyno owner says. That's not the point. The point is, if you have a 400whp car that reads 400whp on your dyno, 440whp on a dynojet and 460-470whp on a dynapac and you're playing the # game, you're going to be disappointed no matter how "accurate" the # is, because your buddies who dynoed on the dynojet or dynapac are all gonna have the "bigger wiener" cause their # is higher and you have threads like this where people are wondering where their missing hp is (when they aren't missing any).

So in a sense I am agreeing with you as the # game is stupid, again I am just helping him understand why his #s may be low (reality being its probably ALL in the crew letting the tires slip, so back to my main point, dyno elsewhere).

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

ouch!! So the 413rwhp seems on par...All the dyno talking is useless here. Its the setup..

xBRadX

iTrader: (1)

I tend to agree. I'm curious to see how it turns out.

mike c.

iTrader: (1)

Your cam stinks! Not gunna say it's your entire problem,but it is one. Pat G did me a custom gring for my l92's and I had a nice gain over the other two cam's i had. It is no where near your cam spec and i'm sure it's set up way different. My 402ci made 530hp w/l92 heads in a m6 car. Also,my 346ci made 463hp and ran 11.1 n/a in a 3,700lbs car.

KC&97TA

iTrader: (1)

What did the car run in the 1/4 mile...

Dyno numbers don't mean much, I've been watching a 365rwhp 3rd gen, LS1 swap run 11.8's in the heat and humidity.

djfury05

iTrader: (30)

yea I wonder why.. maybe because its a lot lighter and does a better job of getting the power to the ground

kdavis

iTrader: (14)

Forget dyno numbers. My trans am put down 354/346 and ripped high 11s at stock weight! Use the real world info provided (run with the v). In my opinion get some ets and let the guys at vs look over it.

Tunink

iTrader: (3)

Any updates to this? End up with a new cam or ?

03EBZ06

I have noticed the last 3-4 posts by Virg Speed and can not agree more. People get stuck on dur@050 numbers and then they are screwed.
A good starting place to look for one is at Comp Cam's who has quite an assortment of cams for those heads.

I too am interested how this came out...