Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

The twin rollers make it difficult to get a hard launch off the line so the 60' times are usually not as good as a prepped track. But once rolling the dyno is very accurate for setting shift points and the 1/4 mile trap speed is very close to reality.

ctd

iTrader: (1)

& Tx's

billyflantos

iTrader: (6)

who sales the v2's and how much are they?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

www.airflowresearch.com
$2,598 for 230 V2 heads. Mine had the optional lightweight valves, milling to bring the chamber cc down to 65, and the stouter 8019 valve springs.

Rick_Vor

iTrader: (36)

It doesn't look like AFR has added them to site yet.

Figures as soon as I finally scrape enough cash to buy some 225's and get them bolted down they come out with a "new and improved" version.

I'm sure I'll still be happy with my 225's.

Rick

sum guy

iTrader: (4)

Props to Patric G. under the spot light and nobody can find any claims or numbers that don't line up. All the misunderstandings accusations ect I could answer for him (I don't know crap) By reading all the info from the first page. lol Tony I'm always impressed that people always have a hard time beleiving the nubers your parts produce. That has to be the ultimate complement in this buisness. My only question with Afr heads is: You claim all your mamofied heads get the same proven Clean up/porting from build to build and you work for AFR .....?

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Not sure where your going with this....LOL

Obviously alot of the stuff I do by hand is custom for the particular combo I am looking to improve. Part of my job at AFR is to ensure we produce a killer out of the box head that consistently delivers but as a cylinder head designer I can take just about anybody's out of the box piece and improve upon it (some more than others of course) by making modifications that work better with the final package its being utilized as well as some finer refinements to the critical areas of the port very sensitive to flow (anywhere near the valvejob or including the valve job high on the list as well as the shape of the combustion chamber as well).

Its all about value and how much you value those last few CFM's that going thru a head with a fine tooth comb can find. AFR provides value and Id like to think the stuff I do by hand does as well. Its just a point of diminishing returns at that point (and alot more time consuming and challenging) when you have such a good piece to start with and have to improve.

And yes....regarding Pats results its easy to back up results that were never manipulated in the first place. Real results on the dyno always lead to real results at the track....well they usually do, especially if you keep your eye on the trap speeds which almost never lie....ET can be tricky if you dont have the right traction, driveline, or suspension to handle the newfound power.

-Tony

TA63

iTrader: (5)

Wow, that should end the debate I think. Very impressive!

sum guy

iTrader: (4)

Yep.The question was If you can do basically the same proven treatment to brand new AFR to gain more power why don't they come like that out of the box.
I came from the 5.0 world where I bought a trick flow kit that include heads, cam, intake, roller rockers, push rods, valve covers and gaskets for $2500. AFRs there are the price of ported stockers here. I would think the block of aluminum and machining cost would be the same. Your paying for r&d seems it should be a 100% effort

You already answered that nicely. Any way just venting. I'm just nervous if I buy a $2500 set of heads, $800 intake, and all the supporting goodies I might end up with ported stocker results and will feel like I need to send my brand new peices in for the $necessary improvements$ to get the advantage I paid for already.

Viper

iTrader: (6)

"The question was If you can do basically the same proven treatment to brand new AFR to gain more power why don't they come like that out of the box."

Business 101. If he did that, he wouldn't have an aftermarket porting business. By doing the porting, it offers a product to people who want 'the heads to go to 11' as well as opening the door for Tony to sell more products to complete a package (springs, valves, cams, intakes etc).

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Honestly thats incorrect....

Let me try and summarize my thoughts of this situation because I think its something that needs to be cleared up for some folks.

The thing is to really get it you would need to have a better understanding about mass manufacturing performance cylinder heads (and what that job entails) and the type of detail work involved to do a one off perfectly optimized piece by hand which also allows certain freedoms specific to an individual combination.

Lets look at a cup motor for instance.....Nascar probably has one of the most unlimited budgets when it comes to finding a performance edge. Do you think they are running heads that aren't hand massaged by a pro after they come off the CNC machine? You bet they are tweaked by hand, not to mention the cubic dollars the CNC machines cost that are spitting them out are in a league of their own. But they still contract a cylinder head expert(s) that have likely signed a dozen disclosure forms to keep their mouth shut about the latest design changes, who are tweaking them by hand to get the last 10-15 CFM before being bolted on the engine.

Guys, the real beauty about CNC porting performance heads (with a good program/prototype to copy) is cost effectiveness. CNC porting gets you 90-95% of the gains for 50% of the dollars and it does so repeatably on every casting assuming you have good tool and machine maintenance. It significantly reduces the costs associated with trying to do something similar by hand which would be impossible for similar dollars spent.

And of course there are CNC heads and there are CNC heads (we are the latter! )....trust me on that.

Not only is there art in the design of the prototype, there is an art to the digitizing, tool path creation, and execution, not to mention keeping that execution consistent, one part after the next. But no matter how good you are there is always a stacking of tolerances, tool wear, fixture issues, etc. thats impossible to get away from.

In short, I don't care who's CNC head you put in my hand....I could say with a very high degree of confidence that no matter who's head it is I could improve it over its out of the box configuration....some alot more than others.

We (AFR) makes a killer head for the money....the new V2 stuff is like artwork when you see the high quality CNC work and if you had any idea of the time spent in R&D to get there you would be even more appreciative. Our original stuff in 2004 was very good (cutting edge at the time and still holds its own today)....the new stuff is even better but there is still room for a guy like myself who knows exactly what a certain transition needs to look like or how a slightly different valvejob and chamber can effect the numbers to work better on a particular combination etc, etc. Most of what I'm doing is refining the program....not reinventing the wheel and as the guy that put most of the time in its design in the first place, I kinda have a good idea of the small changes and massaging needed to get the most from it.

The work I do is for the guys looking for the "extra edge" and who are willing to spend a little more to get it. Truthfully its what separates the really hardcore enthusiast from the casual one and those are the types of projects I enjoy getting involved in. Helping to push a particular combination to yield more power than it ought to on paper is extremely rewarding and its all about attention to detail and looking for those few precious CFM wherever you can find them.

In short, you want one of the best out of the box performance values in Gen III heads, I know you will be thrilled with the looks and performance (not to mention lifetime warranty) with any of the new AFR products. If your looking for every last CFM and are willing to spend a little more to get it, shoot me a PM or a phone call and lets see if we are a good fit for one another.

Sorry for the long winded response but I dont want any of you feeling cheated about what you get from AFR. Fact is I put alot of my day as well as a good deal of personal time into making sure you guys are getting a killer product for your money and trust me you are. Not to many unhappy AFR customers out there or I would certainly like to think so (and speak with you if your less than thrilled about anything concerning our product).

Im outta here....I have an LS engine I need to keep working on!!



Cheers,
Tony

Viper

iTrader: (6)

Tony

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as offensive. There is nothing wrong with making money, and offering more porting for those who want to go that much quicker is smart business. In rereading my post, it does sound like it's all about the money. I've worked with Tony for years and have products from him (including a mamofied FAST90) and know that he truly enjoys doing this and loves helping his customers. The money comes when you enjoy what you do.

redsap05

Has anyone posted up any results with these heads just out of the box?

bortous

What a great thread this was.

G Atsma

And this brings it to another audience. Thanks bortous!