Bludevil415

First off this is not an attempt to bash afr in anyway.But i am not happy with my results after spending my money on these heads.

So i will start with this. My car is 03 z06. Before the afr heads the car made 440/400 to the wheels. Engine Specs were Stock Ls6 Heads, Custom Grind EPS Cam 222/234 596/601 on a 115lsa, 1 7/8 Kooks Long Tube Headers with cats,Stock Titanium Mufflers DHM Low Profile Cut Outs, Vararam Cold Air Intake with Power Duct,Fast 92/90, Slp UnderDrive Pulley, Stock Injectors.
Best time in the car has been 11.44 at 120.

So i got a really good deal on some low mile AFR heads.Heads have been milled to .024" so they are 62cc. Bolted them on along with some 42lb Injectors, Bumped my compression up to 11.5-1. Took my car to the same shop that i have always been going to Newtech Performance. Long story short my car made a best of 451/403. So i picked up 11hp and
3ftlb I was heart broken. I know some of you are thinking this cam is to small for these heads which i fully understand, but the problem is that the hp that i gained is really nothing at all. The gain could of came from the bigger injectors and the bump in compression for all i know.Tony from AFR has always advertised the benefit of Airspeed, Killer Low and Midlift Flow and strong speak #'s. I dont think i got any of this . My dyno sheet of before the heads and after looks like exactly the same except a little bump towards the end.

So this is an call out to Tony Mamo himself to spec me a cam that will make me some where in the 470-480 hp range with about 420-430 ftlb's. I would perfer not to flycut the pistons but if it is a must so be it. I would like to go with a cam from EPS because i have had good results with this cam intill now but if you think i should have someone else grind the cam i have no problem.This car is a street car first so i want to be able to daily drive the car if i like with out having any problems with driveability. I know i could pick up about 20hp by sending my heads and intake to Tony for a port job but im not ready to spend that type of money again on these heads. Like i said this is not a AFR bash at all i am just and unhappy customer and looking for Tony's help to make things right. Attached is my dyno sheet.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

A PM might have been nice.....then you could have posted a thread with a happy ending instead.

It's late so let me cut to the chase....I see a few things right away that need some addressing.

First off, why do I feel your baseline is a tad high for the cam size and the mods in question? Im curious if the car feels any faster....whats the power delivery like with the new heads

Secondly, purchasing used heads always adds the element of doubt....do we really know the condition of the valve job and if the heads were messed with in any way? Its a variable that needs to be considered....I would do a leak down test to see how well your sealing up.

Another biggie is the cam.....it couldn't be more wrong for an AFR 205.....waaaay too much exhaust duration and too wide a lobe separation angle. That cam has to go for sure....would probably get you something in the 230 range closer to a single pattern.

Would like to also know the cranking compression you have now....if possible that would be a good piece of information. You will have to flycut unless we keep the cam in the high 220's and it's still snuggy there.

Unless you get a bit aggressive its difficult with a small cam to achieve your goal....not many have besides my personal ride and a few others I could count on one hand. Everything has to be optimized.

Get me some of the information I have inquired about and we can go from there....once again im curious how the car feels now versus before.

Also, how much timing did you run and whats the A/F curve look like now (perhaps you can email me that)....that would be helpful information also. Be prepared to do some work and spend a few bucks in search of the power you seek. High 400's with a 346 represents less than 5% of the population out there and the guys that achieved it didn't fall out of bed doing so.

If you would like to pick up the phone my number is 661-705-8508

Look forward to helping you sort the combo out a bit

-Tony

smok'nZ

iTrader: (160)

get a 102 send it to tony and a new cam from him and ill bet you will be happy

Bludevil415

Wow Thanks alot for responding. Its a little late right now. But i will respond to these question to the best of my knowledge. I did start to PM you at first but i wanted a little bit of input from everyone.

For the first set of questions. My car made really good numbers for a cam only and the size of the cam that is in the car there is no doubt about that. The car dynoed at 423/388 before the fast 92/90 set up and that was with the cut-outs open. All the numbers posted are with the cutouts open. I think with them closed the car was around 410hp im not positive though.The shop where my car was dynoed i would call an honest dyno he had nothing to gain on inflating my numbers. Only thing he did to the car was tune it and nothing else. I would say this shop is one of the most respected in the bay area. My best trap speed in the car was between 123-124 i do not have the time slips from these passes anymore so i have no idea what the d.a were on those runs.
As far as the car feeling faster... I would say that the throttle response has increased but i wouldnt say that the car feels faster. You are correct about buying used heads there could be somthing up with them. I know before i purchased the heads they were sent to a shop to get checked out and they passed just fine.I can say that these heads with a g5x3 112lsa cam in a z06 made 470 to the wheels.
I am not sure of the cranking compression right now. The car only has 24k on the clock and it remained bone stock till 18k miles on the car.
For the question on the timing and a/f curve im going to have to get back to you on that one. I will call Nick up and find that out for you asap. Thanks for taking the time to respond and to explain a few things to me. You are one of the few sponsors here that actually explain things in dept instead of just saying buy this product. I look forward to working with you and to see if we can get some better numbers out of this combo. Thanks again.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

One thing I noticed, although it doesn't effect peak numbers, was the low torque and then power increase mid-way about 1/3 of the way through the run (can't see RPM). Based on my experience, since both heads produced similar curves, that may be your headers.

99 Blue Bird

iTrader: (3)

so what up with the 243s. im in the bay if you are interested in a sale

ctd

iTrader: (1)

From a tuning perspective what did they do?

The AFR heads will handle much more timing without knock as compared to the LS6 heads.

My guess is the timing maps are the same, should that be the case there is a possibility timing was removed with LS6 heads.

I'm looking at the under curve portion of the runs. You made to many changes to have mirror results.

Opinion only which is what you asked for.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

I'm more surprised it made 440/400 with that cam on stock heads. Maybe the dyno was screwed that day?

Bludevil415

Like i said i was surpised about the numbers it put down but if you look at the this link here it backs up my results.This car made 403/392 to the wheels. With out long tubes, open cutouts,fast intake,underdrive pulley, im pretty sure there are a couple of more things i am leaving out but you get the point.


https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-mild-cam.html

linn.35

What color is your car? Did you purchase it from the OH area?

Bludevil415

I do not know exacally what he did but this his 3rd time tuning the car.
1st time was after the cam swap. 2nd time was after the fast install, and this would be the 3rd.He did around 10 pulls with the car and spent a good amout of time trying to squeeze a little more out of it. I know he did mention that at a point he did have to pull a little timing out because of my compression being bumped up and that my car would make a good canidate to run on e85. Hope that helps.

Bludevil415

The headers are 1 7/8 from kooks. I dont think there's a problem with them.

Bludevil415

243's are long gone.

Bludevil415

Car is eb and the car was purchased in california. I am the 2nd owner.

03EBZ06

What were the relative DA's for the two dyno pulls. Its possible your stock head out performed the AFRs though I doubt it.

I'm no fan of smaller cc heads than stock, but it looks to me as if you need more cam to get where you want to be. You MIGHT hit the number with something like a COMP LSL 239/243-112+4, but the tune will have to be spot on. That won't be a real street cam though IMHO. You could put it on a 115 like your old cam to tame it down.
Post up after you get adjusted.

linn.35

Ok, I just wanted to make sure. There is a Yellow 03 Z running around somewhere with my old motor and heads. 60k mile short block with stage 3 ported ls6 heads.

03EBZ06

I actually sold an 03ebz out of state w cartek stage2 heads. Send me ur last 8 of Vin to confirm

triche

iTrader: (4)

hope you didnt sell the Cartek stage 2 heads.......for 243's......that would suck for you, but awesome for the buyer.

J-Rod

Where are you located? Your dyno HP and track times don't match up at all unless you are in an area with really high altitude. As an example, I went 11.59 @ 118 in a bone stock Z06 making 356-359 RWHP on a set of ET Streets.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Not saying there is a problem, but when I swapped from my current to a 4 to 1 header last spring my curve looked like yours. With my current headers, the torque is flat and higher.