EPS 226/230, tea 5.3 1.5, fast 92/92
04-27-2011, 06:20 AM
#41
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Congrats on the numbers and I'm sure that the car is blast to drive and can do as much as 500 rwhp dyno queen H/C cars and better in the street
I have smaller cam ( EPS 222/226 0.597/0.598 115lsa ) and PRC 5.3 Stg 2.5 with out of the box FAST 92 setup and the combo yeild in 435 rwhp / 411 rwtq with cutout opened ..
I'm thinking about doing better heads in the future ... TEA/TFS or PRC 215/227
I have smaller cam ( EPS 222/226 0.597/0.598 115lsa ) and PRC 5.3 Stg 2.5 with out of the box FAST 92 setup and the combo yeild in 435 rwhp / 411 rwtq with cutout opened ..
I'm thinking about doing better heads in the future ... TEA/TFS or PRC 215/227
04-27-2011, 05:04 PM
#42
Can anyone tell me if my dyno graph looks normal?
I have mixed feelings on if the numbers are where they should be for my car. The car was Vector Motor sports dyno which is a mustang dyno.
Mods here where
Eps 230/234 111+4 cam with manley 7.400 pushrods
Stock ls6 heads with cometic .040 gaskets to bump compression
Stock ls6 intake with ported tb
Jet-hot headers and tsp true-duels
SVO 30lb injectors
The car is an M6 It had a 10 bolt with 4.10 gears and heavy 17x11 rims at the time.
I have mixed feelings on if the numbers are where they should be for my car. The car was Vector Motor sports dyno which is a mustang dyno.
Mods here where
Eps 230/234 111+4 cam with manley 7.400 pushrods
Stock ls6 heads with cometic .040 gaskets to bump compression
Stock ls6 intake with ported tb
Jet-hot headers and tsp true-duels
SVO 30lb injectors
The car is an M6 It had a 10 bolt with 4.10 gears and heavy 17x11 rims at the time.
04-27-2011, 05:26 PM
#43
I've talked to a few knowledgeable people in the past few days. The answers I've got so far are; valve float, too much advance ground into the cam, heads and tune. LOL. Oh and a restriction somewhere but I refuse to believe that one.
The car isn't idling very good at the moment and the SES light keeps coming on. Then today I went out and I have a FLAT drag radial. That just about ruined my whole day! Can you have a patch put in a drag radial, not a plug but a patch?
It's time to start drinking I think.
The car isn't idling very good at the moment and the SES light keeps coming on. Then today I went out and I have a FLAT drag radial. That just about ruined my whole day! Can you have a patch put in a drag radial, not a plug but a patch?
It's time to start drinking I think.
04-27-2011, 06:22 PM
#44
I've talked to a few knowledgeable people in the past few days. The answers I've got so far are; valve float, too much advance ground into the cam, heads and tune. LOL. Oh and a restriction somewhere but I refuse to believe that one.
The car isn't idling very good at the moment and the SES light keeps coming on. Then today I went out and I have a FLAT drag radial. That just about ruined my whole day! Can you have a patch put in a drag radial, not a plug but a patch?
It's time to start drinking I think.
The car isn't idling very good at the moment and the SES light keeps coming on. Then today I went out and I have a FLAT drag radial. That just about ruined my whole day! Can you have a patch put in a drag radial, not a plug but a patch?
It's time to start drinking I think.
04-27-2011, 06:32 PM
#46
I looked at your graph compared to mine. Your peaks later than mine and is more noticeable.
Yes I did. The cam card said the ICL was 110 but when I checked it, it was 113.5. I ended up at 109.5
On thing I have a question about, why does my graph go up and down? What I mean is the lines aren't smooth at all especially compared to mtuggle86's? Is it because of smoothing on the dyno or is it an indication of something else?
I am going to pull a valve cover off and find a better way to check pushrod length than what I did in the past.
Thanks again for everyones input. My feelings aren't hurt. I posted this thread to try to get some answers. I don't expect everyone to stroke my ego and tell me its great when it's not.
04-27-2011, 06:48 PM
#47
I looked at your graph compared to mine. Your peaks later than mine and is more noticeable.
Yes I did. The cam card said the ICL was 110 but when I checked it, it was 113.5. I ended up at 109.5
On thing I have a question about, why does my graph go up and down? What I mean is the lines aren't smooth at all especially compared to mtuggle86's? Is it because of smoothing on the dyno or is it an indication of something else?
I am going to pull a valve cover off and find a better way to check pushrod length than what I did in the past.
Thanks again for everyones input. My feelings aren't hurt. I posted this thread to try to get some answers. I don't expect everyone to stroke my ego and tell me its great when it's not.
Yes I did. The cam card said the ICL was 110 but when I checked it, it was 113.5. I ended up at 109.5
On thing I have a question about, why does my graph go up and down? What I mean is the lines aren't smooth at all especially compared to mtuggle86's? Is it because of smoothing on the dyno or is it an indication of something else?
I am going to pull a valve cover off and find a better way to check pushrod length than what I did in the past.
Thanks again for everyones input. My feelings aren't hurt. I posted this thread to try to get some answers. I don't expect everyone to stroke my ego and tell me its great when it's not.
04-27-2011, 08:30 PM
#51
It's an o2 code, low input I think. I cleared it thinking it was because I had driven it on the mail order tune and maybe it washed out the sensors but I don't know for sure. I will put it on the scanner again tomorrow and get the actual code.
04-28-2011, 05:30 AM
#53
What was your KPA at 3000 rpm and 6000 RPM, this will tell you if you have an intake restriction. I doubt it's your problem though, and I doubt your cam is over advanced since I run mine on a 107 ICL (I degreed it) with a 39 Degree intake valve closing point and mine will pull to almost 7000 rpm smoothly.
On checking your pushrod length:
Roll your cam over until you're on the base circle.
Hand tighten your rocker arm until all play is removed and contact is just made with push rod.
Now count the number of turns it takes to fully tighten the rocker.
Threads are 1.25mm pitch or .049". Take the number of turns and multiply by .049".
This will be the amount of preload on your current length push rods.
I run around .030" preload. Good luck and I'm not trying to compare dyno numbers or saying my setup is better than so and so cause I did this by any means. I'm trying to help out because I know what you have is capable of 445 + rwhp if you get your issues above 5000 + rpm figured out.
Also what lifters are you running? You could be collapsing your lifters at high rpm which could turn your cam into something with way less lift and duration.
On checking your pushrod length:
Roll your cam over until you're on the base circle.
Hand tighten your rocker arm until all play is removed and contact is just made with push rod.
Now count the number of turns it takes to fully tighten the rocker.
Threads are 1.25mm pitch or .049". Take the number of turns and multiply by .049".
This will be the amount of preload on your current length push rods.
I run around .030" preload. Good luck and I'm not trying to compare dyno numbers or saying my setup is better than so and so cause I did this by any means. I'm trying to help out because I know what you have is capable of 445 + rwhp if you get your issues above 5000 + rpm figured out.
Also what lifters are you running? You could be collapsing your lifters at high rpm which could turn your cam into something with way less lift and duration.
04-28-2011, 09:44 AM
#54
Thanks for the help Nirtroused383. You aren't hurting my feelings.
I'm running stock lifters. I don't know why I didn't replace them, I replaced everything else. I guess because of the low mileage. Hindsight is a bitch. LOL.
I'm running stock lifters. I don't know why I didn't replace them, I replaced everything else. I guess because of the low mileage. Hindsight is a bitch. LOL.
Last edited by LilJayV10; 04-28-2011 at 10:00 AM.
04-28-2011, 10:27 AM
#55
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What lifters would have you guys recommended? Are LS7 lifters that much better or are you referring to aftermarket units? the reason I am asking is b/c i kept my stock low mileage lifters as well...
04-28-2011, 10:51 AM
#56
I reused my stock lifters also. A lot of people use stock lifters with cams that are bigger and have faster ramp rates then ours I really doubt the lifters are the problem for you. After doing some reading on here I'm thinking vector motorsports mustang dyno just read very low so my number are not really bad.
04-28-2011, 03:02 PM
#57
Alot of people run LS7 lifters with no issues. The comp 921 springs are pretty stout springs, about 60lbs more open pressure than the springs I'm using, so I doubt it's valve float from the springs.
mtuggle86: I look more at the shape of the torque curve than I do at peak numbers when comparing setups on different dynos or autos vs sticks. Your torque curve looks great, holds peak torque past 5000 rpm and the power holds itself to 6400 rpm no problems. You would gain 10-15 hp / tq with an unported fast 90 and up to 20-25 rwhp / tq with a properly ported fast. Mustang dyno's that are not calibrated to read like a dynojet read much lower, run it at the track and see what it does. If you click the link in my signature I have comparisons between LS6 intake and Fast with unported 243s.
mtuggle86: I look more at the shape of the torque curve than I do at peak numbers when comparing setups on different dynos or autos vs sticks. Your torque curve looks great, holds peak torque past 5000 rpm and the power holds itself to 6400 rpm no problems. You would gain 10-15 hp / tq with an unported fast 90 and up to 20-25 rwhp / tq with a properly ported fast. Mustang dyno's that are not calibrated to read like a dynojet read much lower, run it at the track and see what it does. If you click the link in my signature I have comparisons between LS6 intake and Fast with unported 243s.
04-28-2011, 03:57 PM
#58
I talked to Geoff@EPS today on the phone. Neither one of us think there is a restriction somewhere unless a raccoon has established residency somewhere.
Really the only idea he had was the cam is to far advanced which makes since to me because of how early it peaks.
However what I don't understand is what's the point of degreeing a cam and putting it where it's suppose to be if it's not going to make power where it should.
With my limited knowledge I would think retarding the cam would change where it peaks at not the amount of power it makes. Am I flawed in thinking this way?
Right now the only thing I think i can do is to verify the pushrod length. Nitroused383 thank you for explaining on how to check it. I don't know if it's never been explained exactly that way to me or what but I understand it a lot better.
This is frustrating because I've seen several cars almost dyno this high with stock heads. Given each dyno and setup is different which I guess is like comparing apples to oranges.
I do think something is off mainly because of how early it peaks. Geoff said the same thing and that the power drops off.
If I can get my car on the dyno at a local college to see what it runs I might retard the cam back and dyno it again to see if the curve/peak changes any.
Retarding the cam and taking it back to Indy to have it retuned doesn't really sound like a good option because of how expensive it is. I'm seriously considering getting HP Tuners and start to mess with it but I don't know if I'm smart enough to learn how to tune.
My goal was to have 450+rwhp and run bottom 11's on motor. So far I'm 0 for 2. Down on power and a flat drag radial.
Really the only idea he had was the cam is to far advanced which makes since to me because of how early it peaks.
However what I don't understand is what's the point of degreeing a cam and putting it where it's suppose to be if it's not going to make power where it should.
With my limited knowledge I would think retarding the cam would change where it peaks at not the amount of power it makes. Am I flawed in thinking this way?
Right now the only thing I think i can do is to verify the pushrod length. Nitroused383 thank you for explaining on how to check it. I don't know if it's never been explained exactly that way to me or what but I understand it a lot better.
This is frustrating because I've seen several cars almost dyno this high with stock heads. Given each dyno and setup is different which I guess is like comparing apples to oranges.
I do think something is off mainly because of how early it peaks. Geoff said the same thing and that the power drops off.
If I can get my car on the dyno at a local college to see what it runs I might retard the cam back and dyno it again to see if the curve/peak changes any.
Retarding the cam and taking it back to Indy to have it retuned doesn't really sound like a good option because of how expensive it is. I'm seriously considering getting HP Tuners and start to mess with it but I don't know if I'm smart enough to learn how to tune.
My goal was to have 450+rwhp and run bottom 11's on motor. So far I'm 0 for 2. Down on power and a flat drag radial.
Last edited by LilJayV10; 04-28-2011 at 04:02 PM.
04-28-2011, 10:29 PM
#60
A few things to add to this thread:
-For those basing their pushrod length of how much the heads were cut. This is the WRONG way to "judge" your pushrod length. Cylinder head milling is only one part of the equation. Camshaft base circle, lifter choice, etc. They all play a role in determining pushrod length.
FWIW, I don't have to use anything that short (7.350) unless the heads have been cut .035-.040 or more, especially with an LS7 lifter. Most heads cut .015-.020 with a GM lifter and Comp cam need a 7.4-7.425 pushrod. People tend to forget (or just don't know) most aftermarket camshafts have a .050-.060 smaller base circle.
Correctly measure pushrod length, then try again. Too long, or too short of pushrod length can also cause a drastic drop-off of power.
-For those basing their pushrod length of how much the heads were cut. This is the WRONG way to "judge" your pushrod length. Cylinder head milling is only one part of the equation. Camshaft base circle, lifter choice, etc. They all play a role in determining pushrod length.
FWIW, I don't have to use anything that short (7.350) unless the heads have been cut .035-.040 or more, especially with an LS7 lifter. Most heads cut .015-.020 with a GM lifter and Comp cam need a 7.4-7.425 pushrod. People tend to forget (or just don't know) most aftermarket camshafts have a .050-.060 smaller base circle.
Correctly measure pushrod length, then try again. Too long, or too short of pushrod length can also cause a drastic drop-off of power.