Can't wait to see what this puts down. I am getting a SD parts EL Toro 427 built. I hope I get close to what you have, great build

 

Hey guys...sorry for the delays. The issues we were having during this process has been resolved. Either myself or John will post up results really really soon. Right now, not gonna say anything without showing you proof. We got one more thing I want done. We will post that result up soon too.

 

Glad to hear it's coming along nicely!

 

Me two!!

 

For all you loyal followers, it is a bit hard to voice the amount of work that went into this project. Both with all the small things that like to go wrong with any project, to the countless times of pulling the plugs and checking them to make sure they were ok. I tell you one thing, those LS9 valve covers make it ALOT easier to change plugs.

I had a whole story written out about everything, but realized the results would speak for themselves. Well this post is not the FINAL results, but just a few glimpses at the final product.

In the last episode, we left you with the new proto CAI numbers along with the ported fast but still the SLP 1 3/4 headers, which, I must say, are a champ at making all that power. The catted Y had seen its last days and we had to actually hammer out the insides. Well more like we wanted to just to feel victory!

We were changing the headers and Y pipe anyway, so what the heck. We got the trans back from PB all ready to go. I am happy to say it no longer has the problems that it did, so we are good to go with header install and some of the "massaging" that they normally take. A few sawzall cuts later, and not a single sound was heard on idle or acceleration.

Fast forward a bit. After a few tuning sessions for idle and startup, we were ready for the dyno. I took some pics because we are still kinda sorting through the graphs to see which ones average the best. Oh yah and we have a new video of the beast back on the dyno.

There is one drawback at the moment that we have been addressing with some help from the mastermind of the twin pump kit on this car LP. We are using an RPM window switch to turn the second pump on at a very specific RPM. This graph you will see, we did before addressing said issue. We kept wondering, why does this graph tank so HARD? On average from the last pulls we were up 14HP on average and 14TQ on average as well. Ill try to have those graphs overlaying tomorrow if I can. At peak HP after the total transformation, at the peak NOW it made 590 where before it made 577, but with the fuel pressure dropping, it just could NOT top 600 because the fuel just was not there. Did it eventually make over 600? Ill post those results later. For now, here is the first round of tuning after the swap (in picture form only for now).

I apologize for the poor quality of the graph photo, it will be much better once we get just the graphs up, but it will do for now.


(Nearly) back to back pulls. We had a short one in between where the graph did not register correctlly.


and the Dyno of said runs


Please stay tuned, as I try to put the rest of the graphs into some semblance of order and have them make sense and break them down.

We shall see you again soon, same Bat time, same Bat channel!

 

quit posting STD numbers.. post the correct SAE numbers that the entire industry uses please

 

I am not sure that was a question, but.........I did say in my post that I will provide the extra graphs. We are using that to make a direct comparison to what we had previously on the graphs. Rest assured I will post up all the graphs in any form I can.

There is no need to be so touchy about it. According to everyone else they are just numbers and do not mean much if you cannot back it up with a trap speed anyway. Otherwise its just like a Ford.

 

^^ LOL
Great Results thus far! That's amazing.
** I can't wait to see what my results will be when my build is done. This is VERY Inspiring.

I'm still watching this thread... Keep up the great work guys!

-James

 

Thanks for the update John. It was a pain but it's worth it and it's finally about finished.

In regards to using different correction factors, John will post them like he basically said. However, I can really careless which factor he uses. I say this because either way, it makes decent power. Whether it is STD corrected, SAE corrected or *** corrected whatever. Not to say I'm disregarding what factors to use but I'm not chasing dyno numbers either. Trap speed will tell me what I need to know. I use dyno numbers as reference. Dyno numbers are not everything to me. I'm not here to impress anyone. I'm friendly and like to share information. I'm focused on the proper tuning and driveability of the car. With a proper tune, everything else will take care of itself. For a NA streetcar, it makes nasty power. Just a streetcar...it's all it is.

 

Nice CETA!

Can't wait to see some more!

 

Thanks for the update!

 

No problem. I'm glad we finally got it going. John will post up more soon.

 

Got those graphs yet bud?

 

Sorry man working on it.

 

Then how about graphs without that extra 10 percent load crap added (you know like how every other car is dynoed on a jet). Way to much torque for the hp on that combo (427). Of course you could take it to a mustang dyno again....

570 SAE would be my guess with the 10 percent load crapper adder program..

Not saying your combo doesn't work but my guess for that combo is more like 520 SAE without the load adder .

If it does 132 mph with a race weight of 3800 then those 570 SAE numbers would be correct...

 

Way too much TQ for the HP? If you take ANY of those graphs and calculate it backwards, you come up with the same HP as is on the graph. At any RPM with load or no load.

The load was added to see what the power output would be with it simulating driving on the street. 15% was added as well on the very first runs, and it pulled the same power out. With this eddy current loading, it is very well supposed to be on equal with a mustang dyno in that sense. And 10% load is not "crap". Its a truer sense of what is going on on the road/track than an unloaded run is.

You realize that the total idea of this dyno session is not to be a dyno queen, but to be consistent and see gains. If you dont believe it, then you do not have to. Its that simple.

All should be proven soon enough on the track anyway. I said that before as well.

 

Sorry. Your being sold BS on that adder program. And yes dynos are for tuning...but......big but.....if you have to add a program that no one else uses to get the numbers up then.....your padding numbers.. Not going to go to much into this but I have been dynoing different cars sense the days when dynojets came out (that would be hundreds). I hope the hell you prove me wrong on this dyno loading. Please get back to us after racing. I want to eat my words... I'm always happy when a combo way over performs. Your torgue is 445 cubed numbers. Look up WS6 transam, and you'll get the idea. 445 LS7 13.6 r to 1 compression running E85 with every bolt on thru locked 4l60e does 600 STD or 585ish SAE. engine dynoed 735 STD corrected. So you have near those flywheel hp numbers with a way, way mellower combo..(you can see how this dyno loading thing looks suspect). Like I said, I hope the hell I'm wrong....(I love your car and have a TA myself).

 

Alot of good info let me know on the headers how much more hp

 

Introducing a load with the Eddy Current brake is not an adder nor a program. The load based DynoJet 224xLC, which is being used for these dyno numbers, is widely regarded as one of the best dynos you can buy and considered by most to be the industry standard. We guarantee you that most of the top tuning shops in the industry have a load based dyno in-house as we do. In fact, most of the cars we have even tried loading do not produce higher numbers. Most make lower. The load is introduced to mimic the physics of the street. It has been shown over and over that a loaded dyno run typically makes less power and torque than just an inertia only run. The high horsepower and high torque combinations tend to spin on the dyno from the initial hit. This can be shown by the gear factor ratio on the DynoJet. We introduced a load on this combination to mimic the real world street conditions and to keep the big torque hit from spinning on the rollers; as this Trans AM is wearing drag radials, which are prone to spin on the dyno. The eddy current brake is a must-have for big cubic inch and boosted cars. If you are as experienced as you elude to, you would know that a big boost supercharged combination on an inertia only dyno is not going to be able to produce the same amount of boost as it does on the street and therefore can not take as much timing on the street as you can stuff in on an unloaded dyno. Now, take the same supercharged car, introduce a load to the dyno and voila it will make the same amount of boost as it does on the street and you will be able to tune it properly and safely on the loaded dyno. The Eddy Current brake and load have a purpose and they work and this has been proven, without fault, countless times. In case you may not have heard, there is a 416 putting out numbers VERY close to this one on the runs where it made 560. We are not the only ones making these numbers. Research and a well thought out combination go a long way my friend.

We are well aware of the numbers it is showing to make. We are also aware that what we are really looking for are the average gains and repeatability. IF, and that's a big if, it were snake oil, then it would have done it once. Maybe twice. But every time after that?

I am not claiming to know more than you, or more than anyone else. I do know 3 things though.
#1 - this combo gained a significant amount of power on average on the same dyno in the same conditions
#2 - it was well worth the money and time invested
#3 - he didnt break the bank to do it

We did this to do an A-B-C comparison. We achieved that.

I guess you do not believe that loading a cars drive wheels at least simulates the road force.

And by the way, MUSTANG DYNO uses eddy currents on nearly all their setups. So does Dynocom and quite a few others, and while DJ may have been a little late to the game, they offer it as well. This "program that no one else has or uses" is used quite often to make most turbo apps build boost on the dyno. Otherwise, they will not make their full boost on an unloaded dyno, and we all know what can happen after that.

But who am I to go on arguing with the guy that has been there, done that and has the T shirt, or that remembers a time before there were dynos? I can just remember a time when there was no internet....

 

WTF I REmember when all CETA was just trying to be helpful and then all of a sudden the long time 10 year avitar badged thread police show up and start to turn his thread to ****! A simple PM could of been sent lol.

Anyways CETA thanks bud for posting what works with these strokers. All of us that are subscribed know that you are not out to win the dyno section of ls1tech just showing us your combo. Keep up the good work.