PP 5.7 Stage II/TSP 231/237 Results
03-20-2004, 04:02 PM
#1
PP 5.7 Stage II/TSP 231/237 Results Thought I would post this since there has been so many questions/concerns on the PP heads and TSP 231/237.
Just finished installing this week. Half dozen heat cycles, but no real street time.
Some of the new mods: PP Stage II heads/TSP 231/237 598/595 112/+2, Mez EWP, SVO 30# injectors, RaceX in-tank F/P, TSP ported oil pump, and a bunch of suspension/clutch mods. Left over from the previous set up: Moser 12-bolt, 4.30 gears. Dyno was run on 28x10.5x15 ET Drags. No tricks (don't know any); exhaust - none to speak of - true duels with bullet mufflers to a dump before axels.
Previous dyno #: 331 rwph; 338 rwtq; 100 shot: 435 rwph; 507 rwtq
Today: on the engine: 412.3 rwph; 377.0 rwtq; 100 shot: 512.3 rwph; 563.8 rwtq (only 700psi on bottle - cold out today)
Needless to say I am very please. Just think if I had a stock rear-end, with 342, with stock tires? What is that like a 10-15 - maybe 20 - hp loss.
Thanks to TSP - Brian and Jason (great tune only need minor changes) and to my local guy - Joey - for putting it all together. I have only had minor idle issues, but absolutely no smoke - not even one little puff.
I don't have the ability to publish the dyno sheets or the awesome video. Track time: as soon as the tracks open (April 24th
)
Thanks
David
Just finished installing this week. Half dozen heat cycles, but no real street time.
Some of the new mods: PP Stage II heads/TSP 231/237 598/595 112/+2, Mez EWP, SVO 30# injectors, RaceX in-tank F/P, TSP ported oil pump, and a bunch of suspension/clutch mods. Left over from the previous set up: Moser 12-bolt, 4.30 gears. Dyno was run on 28x10.5x15 ET Drags. No tricks (don't know any); exhaust - none to speak of - true duels with bullet mufflers to a dump before axels.
Previous dyno #: 331 rwph; 338 rwtq; 100 shot: 435 rwph; 507 rwtq
Today: on the engine: 412.3 rwph; 377.0 rwtq; 100 shot: 512.3 rwph; 563.8 rwtq (only 700psi on bottle - cold out today)
Needless to say I am very please. Just think if I had a stock rear-end, with 342, with stock tires? What is that like a 10-15 - maybe 20 - hp loss.
Thanks to TSP - Brian and Jason (great tune only need minor changes) and to my local guy - Joey - for putting it all together. I have only had minor idle issues, but absolutely no smoke - not even one little puff.
I don't have the ability to publish the dyno sheets or the awesome video. Track time: as soon as the tracks open (April 24th
)Thanks
David
Last edited by Navy David SS; 03-20-2004 at 04:07 PM.
03-20-2004, 06:26 PM
#3
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Navy David SS
Thought I would post this since there has been so many questions/concerns on the PP heads and TSP 231/237.
Just finished installing this week. Half dozen heat cycles, but no real street time.
Some of the new mods: PP Stage II heads/TSP 231/237 598/595 112/+2, Mez EWP, SVO 30# injectors, RaceX in-tank F/P, TSP ported oil pump, and a bunch of suspension/clutch mods. Left over from the previous set up: Moser 12-bolt, 4.30 gears. Dyno was run on 28x10.5x15 ET Drags. No tricks (don't know any); exhaust - none to speak of - true duels with bullet mufflers to a dump before axels.
Previous dyno #: 331 rwph; 338 rwtq; 100 shot: 435 rwph; 507 rwtq
Today: on the engine: 412.3 rwph; 377.0 rwtq; 100 shot: 512.3 rwph; 563.8 rwtq (only 700psi on bottle - cold out today)
Needless to say I am very please. Just think if I had a stock rear-end, with 342, with stock tires? What is that like a 10-15 - maybe 20 - hp loss.
Thanks to TSP - Brian and Jason (great tune only need minor changes) and to my local guy - Joey - for putting it all together. I have only had minor idle issues, but absolutely no smoke - not even one little puff.
I don't have the ability to publish the dyno sheets or the awesome video. Track time: as soon as the tracks open (April 24th )
Thanks
David
Just finished installing this week. Half dozen heat cycles, but no real street time.
Some of the new mods: PP Stage II heads/TSP 231/237 598/595 112/+2, Mez EWP, SVO 30# injectors, RaceX in-tank F/P, TSP ported oil pump, and a bunch of suspension/clutch mods. Left over from the previous set up: Moser 12-bolt, 4.30 gears. Dyno was run on 28x10.5x15 ET Drags. No tricks (don't know any); exhaust - none to speak of - true duels with bullet mufflers to a dump before axels.
Previous dyno #: 331 rwph; 338 rwtq; 100 shot: 435 rwph; 507 rwtq
Today: on the engine: 412.3 rwph; 377.0 rwtq; 100 shot: 512.3 rwph; 563.8 rwtq (only 700psi on bottle - cold out today)
Needless to say I am very please. Just think if I had a stock rear-end, with 342, with stock tires? What is that like a 10-15 - maybe 20 - hp loss.
Thanks to TSP - Brian and Jason (great tune only need minor changes) and to my local guy - Joey - for putting it all together. I have only had minor idle issues, but absolutely no smoke - not even one little puff.
I don't have the ability to publish the dyno sheets or the awesome video. Track time: as soon as the tracks open (April 24th
)Thanks
David
everything is right around 400rw for everyone except for a few people which get magic sets and make 430-440...
03-20-2004, 06:31 PM
#4
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikemodano9c
It seems like most people are maxing out around the same HP with these heads...
everything is right around 400rw for everyone except for a few people which get magic sets and make 430-440...
everything is right around 400rw for everyone except for a few people which get magic sets and make 430-440...
03-20-2004, 06:37 PM
#5
TECH Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikemodano9c
It seems like most people are maxing out around the same HP with these heads...
everything is right around 400rw for everyone except for a few people which get magic sets and make 430-440...
everything is right around 400rw for everyone except for a few people which get magic sets and make 430-440...
03-20-2004, 06:48 PM
#7
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 bolts dont eat up 20rw...
more like around 5-7rw...
mike98ws6...i hope you don't add that 231/237 and pull the same max hp...that would suck wouldn't it...
fact is on average these heads are not producing the numbers they should...
maybe you have to have your heads/cam installed by TSP to make good power...
more like around 5-7rw...
mike98ws6...i hope you don't add that 231/237 and pull the same max hp...that would suck wouldn't it...
fact is on average these heads are not producing the numbers they should...
maybe you have to have your heads/cam installed by TSP to make good power...
Trending Topics
03-20-2004, 06:50 PM
#8
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So ur saying the 4.30's don't eat up power? I find that hard to believe. I've gone to different shops and they tell me I'm losing about 10 or so hp with my 4.10's. 
03-20-2004, 06:56 PM
#9
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike98WS6
So ur saying the 4.30's don't eat up power? I find that hard to believe. I've gone to different shops and they tell me I'm losing about 10 or so hp with my 4.10's.
im sure i can get 420+rw out of my automatic locked with a UD pulley and some minor changes, but if i had a large cam, stage 2 heads, and full boltons 400rw would not make me very happy
Last edited by mikemodano9c; 03-20-2004 at 07:44 PM.
03-20-2004, 07:45 PM
#10
Well Mike than do it. I did not start this trend so that people can come in and bash another 410+ rwph car. If some one is happy with their set up, let it be. I showed you mine, now show me yours (dyno's that is).
I am very happy with my set up. I wish I had a scanner to show you actual power curve this set up made. From about 5500 all the way to red line (6900) it pulled almost straight across 410-412. The A/F was at 12.2. Rich is an understatement. BUT this a brand new set-up didn't want to push to hard. I'll get some track time, minior LS1 Edit adjustments and than re-dyno (my buddy owns a dyno
).
My SS is NOT a dyno queen. It will be to the track the minute it opens.
Good luck to your Dyno # Mike.
David
I am very happy with my set up. I wish I had a scanner to show you actual power curve this set up made. From about 5500 all the way to red line (6900) it pulled almost straight across 410-412. The A/F was at 12.2. Rich is an understatement. BUT this a brand new set-up didn't want to push to hard. I'll get some track time, minior LS1 Edit adjustments and than re-dyno (my buddy owns a dyno
).My SS is NOT a dyno queen. It will be to the track the minute it opens.
Good luck to your Dyno # Mike.
David
03-20-2004, 07:49 PM
#11
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Navy David SS
Well Mike than do it. I did not start this trend so that people can come in and bash another 410+ rwph car. If some one is happy with their set up, let it be. I showed you mine, now show me yours (dyno's that is).
I am very happy with my set up. I wish I had a scanner to show you actual power curve this set up made. From about 5500 all the way to red line (6900) it pulled almost straight across 410-412. The A/F was at 12.2. Rich is an understatement. BUT this a brand new set-up didn't want to push to hard. I'll get some track time, minior LS1 Edit adjustments and than re-dyno (my buddy owns a dyno ).
My SS is NOT a dyno queen. It will be to the track the minute it opens.
Good luck to your Dyno # Mike.
David
I am very happy with my set up. I wish I had a scanner to show you actual power curve this set up made. From about 5500 all the way to red line (6900) it pulled almost straight across 410-412. The A/F was at 12.2. Rich is an understatement. BUT this a brand new set-up didn't want to push to hard. I'll get some track time, minior LS1 Edit adjustments and than re-dyno (my buddy owns a dyno
).My SS is NOT a dyno queen. It will be to the track the minute it opens.
Good luck to your Dyno # Mike.
David
from 5500 to redline your making 410-412...sounds just like mine...it sounds like the heads are choking the motor...
good luck to your car too, as an owner of patriot heads i think i can comment about them...
03-20-2004, 08:02 PM
#12
Mike,
Was just reading your trend on your dyno #. Didn't initally see your #. You can comment about the heads, with or without owning PP heads.
I would be a more than a little upset in your situation also, but do you really think its the heads or another factor? With a stick it is much easier to tell if something is sliping.
Do you own an LS1 Edit? I know jack **** about tuning, but I am learning real fast. I would think in looking at your #'s that your 14.1 A/F could be hurting your numbers. I would believe also that my 12.2 is hurting mine. I also was carrying only 26 degrees of timing. Again with some minior changes I'll see 420+ on the engine. On the spray, I will be going 150 shot - hoping for some 10's up North here.
Good Luck
David
Was just reading your trend on your dyno #. Didn't initally see your #. You can comment about the heads, with or without owning PP heads.
I would be a more than a little upset in your situation also, but do you really think its the heads or another factor? With a stick it is much easier to tell if something is sliping.
Do you own an LS1 Edit? I know jack **** about tuning, but I am learning real fast. I would think in looking at your #'s that your 14.1 A/F could be hurting your numbers. I would believe also that my 12.2 is hurting mine. I also was carrying only 26 degrees of timing. Again with some minior changes I'll see 420+ on the engine. On the spray, I will be going 150 shot - hoping for some 10's up North here.
Good Luck
David
03-20-2004, 09:55 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Navy David SS
Well than do it. I did not start this trend so that people can come in and bash another 410+ rwph car. If some one is happy with their set up, let it be. I showed you mine, now show me yours (dyno's that is).
David
David
). Not bashing your numbers, but with that size cam, an EWP, and a free flowing exhaust like that, you should be at more than 410 IMO, thats all. Several 231/237 or equivalent cam only cars are right around 400 rwhp.Now, some people will say that dyno numbers don't mean jack, and if you're happy with the numbers, thats all that matters. Weather I or others think that your numbers are lower than they should be, keep in mind that your 410 rwhp would lay waste to many 430+ rwhp setups on the track.
Shawn
03-20-2004, 11:49 PM
#16
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
David,
The car put down 381/377 running 14/1 when i first took it to get dynotuned...after adjustments and setting the fuel optimally *12.8/1* the car made 397/404...
i think you might be referring to a transmission problem by saying "slipping" but the tranny is holding the power fine...it is built up for much more power than the motor makes...
these numbers are not locked, so i know there is a good 10-15rw right there. that and the added drivetrain loss with an auto my numbers are actually not that horrible...if you dropped my motor in a 6 speed car with a good clutch it should see 430+ no problem. these patriot head owners that are making right around 400rw with large cams seem to be happy with it for the most part, which i do not understand since they should see those numbers cam only with the big sticks that they are running.
unless there is an install error, the bottom end is hurt, or something else is wrong then there is no excuse for a 6 speed car not to make 430 with these patriot heads paired with a large cam. TSP seems to be pumping out the numbers with these heads and their 231/237 cam and only a few of the people are seeing these results.
in the end, if the customer is happy...that is all that matters...
The car put down 381/377 running 14/1 when i first took it to get dynotuned...after adjustments and setting the fuel optimally *12.8/1* the car made 397/404...
i think you might be referring to a transmission problem by saying "slipping" but the tranny is holding the power fine...it is built up for much more power than the motor makes...
these numbers are not locked, so i know there is a good 10-15rw right there. that and the added drivetrain loss with an auto my numbers are actually not that horrible...if you dropped my motor in a 6 speed car with a good clutch it should see 430+ no problem. these patriot head owners that are making right around 400rw with large cams seem to be happy with it for the most part, which i do not understand since they should see those numbers cam only with the big sticks that they are running.
unless there is an install error, the bottom end is hurt, or something else is wrong then there is no excuse for a 6 speed car not to make 430 with these patriot heads paired with a large cam. TSP seems to be pumping out the numbers with these heads and their 231/237 cam and only a few of the people are seeing these results.
in the end, if the customer is happy...that is all that matters...
Originally Posted by Navy David SS
Mike,
Was just reading your trend on your dyno #. Didn't initally see your #. You can comment about the heads, with or without owning PP heads.
I would be a more than a little upset in your situation also, but do you really think its the heads or another factor? With a stick it is much easier to tell if something is sliping.
Do you own an LS1 Edit? I know jack **** about tuning, but I am learning real fast. I would think in looking at your #'s that your 14.1 A/F could be hurting your numbers. I would believe also that my 12.2 is hurting mine. I also was carrying only 26 degrees of timing. Again with some minior changes I'll see 420+ on the engine. On the spray, I will be going 150 shot - hoping for some 10's up North here.
Good Luck
David
Was just reading your trend on your dyno #. Didn't initally see your #. You can comment about the heads, with or without owning PP heads.
I would be a more than a little upset in your situation also, but do you really think its the heads or another factor? With a stick it is much easier to tell if something is sliping.
Do you own an LS1 Edit? I know jack **** about tuning, but I am learning real fast. I would think in looking at your #'s that your 14.1 A/F could be hurting your numbers. I would believe also that my 12.2 is hurting mine. I also was carrying only 26 degrees of timing. Again with some minior changes I'll see 420+ on the engine. On the spray, I will be going 150 shot - hoping for some 10's up North here.
Good Luck
David
03-21-2004, 12:55 AM
#17
8 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Hill, Va
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikemodano9c
fact is on average these heads are not producing the numbers they should...
maybe you have to have your heads/cam installed by TSP to make good power...
maybe you have to have your heads/cam installed by TSP to make good power...
03-21-2004, 03:00 AM
#19
11 Second Club
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Confederacy
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikemodano9c
David,
The car put down 381/377 running 14/1 when i first took it to get dynotuned...after adjustments and setting the fuel optimally *12.8/1* the car made 397/404...
i think you might be referring to a transmission problem by saying "slipping" but the tranny is holding the power fine...it is built up for much more power than the motor makes...
these numbers are not locked, so i know there is a good 10-15rw right there. that and the added drivetrain loss with an auto my numbers are actually not that horrible...if you dropped my motor in a 6 speed car with a good clutch it should see 430+ no problem. these patriot head owners that are making right around 400rw with large cams seem to be happy with it for the most part, which i do not understand since they should see those numbers cam only with the big sticks that they are running.
unless there is an install error, the bottom end is hurt, or something else is wrong then there is no excuse for a 6 speed car not to make 430 with these patriot heads paired with a large cam. TSP seems to be pumping out the numbers with these heads and their 231/237 cam and only a few of the people are seeing these results.
in the end, if the customer is happy...that is all that matters...
The car put down 381/377 running 14/1 when i first took it to get dynotuned...after adjustments and setting the fuel optimally *12.8/1* the car made 397/404...
i think you might be referring to a transmission problem by saying "slipping" but the tranny is holding the power fine...it is built up for much more power than the motor makes...
these numbers are not locked, so i know there is a good 10-15rw right there. that and the added drivetrain loss with an auto my numbers are actually not that horrible...if you dropped my motor in a 6 speed car with a good clutch it should see 430+ no problem. these patriot head owners that are making right around 400rw with large cams seem to be happy with it for the most part, which i do not understand since they should see those numbers cam only with the big sticks that they are running.
unless there is an install error, the bottom end is hurt, or something else is wrong then there is no excuse for a 6 speed car not to make 430 with these patriot heads paired with a large cam. TSP seems to be pumping out the numbers with these heads and their 231/237 cam and only a few of the people are seeing these results.
in the end, if the customer is happy...that is all that matters...
