Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Thank you, we're trying to see if we can eek a few more out of it with some small tweaks.
Brian gave me his tuner's number the other day for the graph which I didn't end up needing, but I am going to call him tomorrow and get the log from him. Shoot me your email and I'll send it to you for a second opinion and me and Jonathan will look at it also to analyze it and the tune if he will give that up. If he's proud of it then he shouldn't care.

I really believe our dyno working off the same eddy current principles a mustang dyno does that it reads lower than a non eddy dyno jet does because of that even with the load % set at 0%.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Well FWIW stock ZR1's untuned are around 505-515whp on the MD1100...

LPE GT19 Cam, LT's, LPE CAI, Corsa C6Z- 512whp

Stock LS3 Camaro M6 - 345-340whp

Stock ZL1- 472whp

I would like to put one of my personal cars on it and see the difference from the old 248H DynoJet to the MD1100

BUT back to the thread at hand,

I will send ya a PM with my email, and take a look as soon as I get a chance.

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Martin: Give him a call and see if you can get a hold of the log. I'd be interested in what you guys think. I want to do the pushrods for sure. I'm positive I will need new guide plates. I will see if COMP makes them and how I can get a hold of some. We can make this thing work. I believe it has another 10hp in it up top past 6200-6500.

If you look at the tune and think my valve train is good let me know. I found some 3/8" guide plates should we need to step up the pushrods.

Ask for the tune as well. I'm pretty sure he will let you have it. We need to get this figured out.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Brian if you would like to, you can call Brian Tooley and get those push rods ordered or I can order them for you it doesn't matter.

I'll call him today and see if I can get the tune and the log to look at and let you know what I think.

bozzhawg

Hmmmmm

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

I can tell you it is the 110gram intake valves along with those roller rockers...it is just too much weight being slung around and the upper rpms can't handle it...

Also make sure you check the 3/8" pushrods cause mine were rubbing the head bores on my 215 TFS heads...iirc it was the intakes only

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...tfs-heads.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...sure-diff.html

So I went with 11/32 heavy wall pushrods and saw no difference vs the 5/16"...

I am running good springs too the PAC 1521 with TI retainers...also have the yella terra ultralites which I think are the lightest aftermarket roller rocker for our cars...

I think you need to swap out those roller rockers for a stock set with trunion or get some yella Terra's...those valves have the most weight and I would not recommend anyone getting tfs heads to not get them swapped out...every graph i see with as cast 220 or Cnc 215, etc all has drop offs...

Now granted mine wasn't until 6700 most likely due to the lighter yella Terra's and good PAC springs but it was still there and this was with 11/32" pushrods

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...4-10-11-a.html

Swap out them valves and you will most likely be golden...

And it makes no sense that people say you can't use stock rockers with tfs heads, if they say that they better say the same for all other heads cause they have bronze guides too...and 1.5* valve angle is not the difference lol

TFS even offers powdered metal guides for a small adder now


Also you should have gained more from the fast 102...I mean with ls3 valves and going from a fast 92 not ls6 intake I picked up close to 20rwhp...

I would get rid of the stock maf and get the better 98mm FTP lid as I think that is your choke point right now...and just get a cheap 85mm maf I think when i got mine it was like $40 shipped from eBay

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Good info right ^ HERE!!!

If you do decide to go back to stock trunion rockers, be sure to contact Brian Tooley and get some of his BTR racing spings... Ive read a few times you must have them below 400# on the stock rocker arm... Im using the old TEA dual golds with comp trunion upgraded stock rockers on mine... no shims just the stock stands... Vindicator Cam on a 109LSA +2... Havent had any problems.... using a set of Trickflow 7.500 pushrods on unmilled as cast 220's

93camaro_zzz

iTrader: (13)

Would be interested to see this with a FAST intake and not a stock TB and MAF.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Chris I agree entirely. I tried to use a milder lobe combination and still had the problem others have encountered with this combination of valve-train parts.

Chris what lobes were you using when you swapped from the 5/16" to the 3/8" and said you saw no difference?

LOL I also think the same thing to myself when people say not to use stock rockers with TFS heads because of the valve angle, powdered metal guides and your good to go. I've seen Tooley say this more than once.

Can you find a link for the MAF you got? I'd like Brian to pick one of those up. Also what is the cost for the turned down LS3 valves?

I've talked to Tooley about all of this and even had Bwolf call him and we found out that with the retainers Bwolf used that it has made his install height not what he thought it was and he lost seat and open pressure from this. This along with the heavier valves, roller rockers and spring pressure that has been reduced because of the install height changing did it in for the valve train past 6200rpm.

I knew what it was as soon as I saw the dip at 6200 yet others tried to tell me that it wasn't valve float when I knew at once what it was. Thanks for backing my thoughts up Chris as I know you fought the same problem for a while.

I also have said several times that with the valve-train issues sorted out, a better lid and your ram-air set-up along with a 85mm MAF he could surpass 475-480rwhp easily.
I've already been in contact with Tooley about this combination. We also use his springs exclusively on every build we do and every camshaft kit we sell. Open pressures above 400#'s over time will destroy the valve stem tips with stock rockers.

I've said it was valve float from the beginning of this thread Chris just echoed my thoughts.

I don't think he needs the stock rocker set-up if he goes with the LS3 turned down valves. A 2.16 LS3 hollow stem intake valve weighs 93 grams or less IIRC. That is considerably lighter than 110 grams for the valves he currently has and turning it down to 2.04" will make it stupid light. That in itself will be enough IMO to alleviate these issues, but with a stock rocker it will take even more weight off which in turn will make more power and rev higher quicker, cleaner and easier. The valve-train you have the most control over will always make more power.
It was re-dynoed with a Fast 102 and made 452rwhp, but due to valve control issues the full potential of the combination hasn't been found. I specified this profile to pull to 6400-6500 with the LS6 and 6600-6700 with a Fast102 or 92. We are working on alleviating this problem and adding some more power through a better lid set-up and MAF sensor. Look for this combination to make 475+rwhp when we get the valve train sorted out and 480+ when the 98mm lid and 85mm MAF go on.

Also this dyno that is being used sits at 4700+ above sea level and after speaking with the dyno operator/tuner he has confirmed that even with SAE correction his dyno numbers are always lower than comparable dynos at sea level.

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

To confir the actual numbers. every correction factor I've seen is with at a corection of 4-5% per 1000ft of elevation increase. His dyno is set at 3%. There might be some more power...5-10 by going to a sea level dyno but my main concern at this point is getting at least a couple more hundred RPM out of this thing.

I still have some stock rockers and will use them if I can. Just holding those Comps made me almost not want to put them. on. So with stock rockers I would need to change the guides right?? I want to improve this setup with few changes at the moment without taking the heads off. I will pull the heads and swap out the valves but that'll have to wait a month or so. So guys, with leaving the heads on the car...I'm thinking I should go to a lighter YT RR and change the springs out?? Let me know if you think that would work out.

From what I've heard every GM car 03+ comes with a 85mm MAF factory. I"m headed down to Summit Racing to pickup HP tuners today and I've watched Calibrated Success a few times and I'm very confident I can change the MAF functions and get my idle fixed.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Get a C5Z06 or LS2 GTO MAF... or get the LPE 100mm MAF sensor..... The LPE unit cost a little more but did a swap from a SLP-85mm MAF on a friends 02 Firehawk with PRC 227 heads, SNL v.4 Cam, and picked up a good amount everywhere in the curve with a Spinmonster Ported FAST102, 100mm MAF, and FTP 104mm Lid...


Just a thought...

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Yeah, I can get a truck MAF for $40 here in town...Will that work?

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

my cam is listed in my thread i think

239/243 lsl/lsl

I am speed density tuned now and had the maf when i was cam only, so cant remember the link but any truck or z06 85mm descreened maf will work

ls3 valves turned down to 2.04 weight like 86 grams...i wanna say it was like 200ish for a set of 8 that were turned down backcut and setup to my seat angle for TFS 215 heads...i then got some lapping compound from ebay and lapped them in just to be sure of good seal...probably not needed but i had the time

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Just some from a tuning stand point-

Leave the Screen in the 85mm MAF...

It helps stabalize air and will be a crucial benefit to low speed cruise/idle driveability.

Its really not much of a restriction..

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

I picked up an 85mm Maf today. But here is the tune from my tuner. I have HPtuners now So i can load in any changes.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

The MAF is a little off up top, if hes actually getting a 12.72 AFR he is commanding 12.5...

SO, FIGURING HIS WIDEBAND IS CORRECT:
First adjust the top end of the MAF from about 6250HZ all the way to the top Multiply 0.98 to get your MAF right...

Then take PE table from 3600 -4400 RPM up to 1.155 then 4800RPM to 1.150, 5200 to 1.142 and finally 5600-7200 RPM to 1.138

While your at Power Enrichment adjust the enrichment ramp in to 1.200

Move PE Delay to 500rpm.


Just for a start... Timing looks good. Go out and drive the car after the adjustments and post a scan log.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Lighter rockers will help and Tooley's Max pressure springs would help also. If you wanted to use stock rockers you'd need powdered metal guides.

You can either do YT UL RR and Brian's Max pressure springs or stock rockers, his Platinum springs and powdered metal guides.

Honestly the LS3 valves with your current rocker set-up and spring set-up would be the hot ticket. You wouldn't need to change springs(other than the retainers to get your spring pressure back where it should be) and you will have a much lighter valve train and it will make more power than your current valves with stock rockers or your current valves, YT UL's and Max Pressure springs.

Think about it and let me know what you want to do. If we can get your car to make power to 6500-6600 it will easily surpass 465rwhp and may even break 470rwhp. Add the new MAF in there and I don't see why 475rwhp isn't achievable.
I would think with 3/8" push rods, your YT UL's and swapping those LSL lobes for LXL/HUC like Bwolf has it would of been sufficient, but those LS3 turned down valves are so light you gain so much more control over the valve-train which only adds to the horsepower output.
Good deal!
I agree with most of all of this, but I will add some things. Change the commanded PE from 3200-4800 fro, 1.17 to 1.15. That will take it from commanding 12.5 to 12.7. Then from at 5200 make it 1.14, at 5800 make it 1.13 and from 6200 to red line make it 1.12. This should give you a nice progressive fuel curve that progressively gets leaner as rpm's rise. To make the most peak torque you want 12.5-12.7 and peak horsepower will want 12.9-13.2. This is pretty much exactly what 06X6pdGTO said.

I'd also take the timing at 2200 rpm from 17 to 20* and from 2400rpm to 3600rpm make it 25*. Should add some torque down low. If it wants to knock after doing that back it off .5 at a time till it doesn't along with softening the knock sensors 10% each time.

Once you get a log send me your log file and configuration file and I'll let Jonathan take a look at it and see what he thinks about the drivability problems you're having.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

For drivability go into Idle, RPM, and adjust Update Err Time to 0.4

Put your Proportional Enable RPM at 60, and Integral Enable RPM Error at 55....


Report back with scan log...

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Ok Guys I will add the changes today and make a log here in a few hours and post it up. my only other concern in the hanging RPMs. When coming to a stop or coasting down a hill in neutral it'll pop down to 1100 rpm for half second then shoot up to 2k rpm and hang until I completely stop. Would I be able to change the MAF without having to tune it on a dyno and no wideband at the moment?

I really appreciate all the help and support guys. I'll definitely start looking into getting some ls3 valves. Aren't they bigger than the current valves in the car?

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Where are these tables at? I cannot find them in 2.23 at all.