NA Meth Injection Dyno Results
Could have missed it somewhere in your write-up.... but what issues are you trying to solve with meth/water injection on your specific setup?
A properly built N/A setup should benefit from higher octane fuel but advanced timing doesn't necessarily mean more power. Still need the proper burn rate to make more power. Like others have said, I'd bet higher meth:water ratio will pan out in your favor. Maybe 30% water but not 50/50.
A properly built N/A setup should benefit from higher octane fuel but advanced timing doesn't necessarily mean more power. Still need the proper burn rate to make more power. Like others have said, I'd bet higher meth:water ratio will pan out in your favor. Maybe 30% water but not 50/50.
You got to think that your spraying a water mix before the TB. How do you know it's even across the cylinders? Pretty much vacuum is carrying it.
2nd would be testing on a low load dynojet. You can always run more timing due to lack of load. Probably why you hear it detonating on the street under higher load.
3rd- I would say the better test would be some 104 octain to compare the results.
Also, 0 smoothing is not hp blips, it's static across the sensors. This is why smoothing is done.
2nd would be testing on a low load dynojet. You can always run more timing due to lack of load. Probably why you hear it detonating on the street under higher load.
3rd- I would say the better test would be some 104 octain to compare the results.
Also, 0 smoothing is not hp blips, it's static across the sensors. This is why smoothing is done.
2nd would be testing on a low load dynojet. You can always run more timing due to lack of load. Probably why you hear it detonating on the street under higher load.
3rd- I would say the better test would be some 104 octane to compare the results.
Also, 0 smoothing is not hp blips, it's static across the sensors. This is why smoothing is done.
But, it won't make a difference even if you were able to plumb a direct port meth injection system, or run race gas. The point I am making, and I guess my .02 cents on this has been from the beggining that on a NA car you're just not going to see any significant increases in power, when there just isn't a significant potential to do so. Meth injection, or race gas, or intercooling for that matter will allow you to significantly increase power on boosted cars because the much higher IAT's you see, can be brought down to run more boost, and more timing safely. On a NA car you just don't have the turbo or supercharger that creates the much higher IAT's that would mandate you to run less timing to keep you away from detonation. Thats why the potential just isn't there on a NA car. It won't matter race gas or meth injection, they are all going to do the exact same thing whether its race gas, or meth injection not spreading to all cylinders the same.
Again, prove me wrong, but I just don't see it happening, and your IAT's where they are show strong evidence to support this.
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From: Norn Iron
As I said, you're wasting your time putting water in there. And equally wasting your time unless you have modified the engine to a level where you need more octane.
ie higher compression or a camshaft with a much higher DCR. Then because pump fuel willl start to become a limiting factor, some methanol or higher octane fuel will become more advantageous or even necessary
ie higher compression or a camshaft with a much higher DCR. Then because pump fuel willl start to become a limiting factor, some methanol or higher octane fuel will become more advantageous or even necessary
With a high strung motor I can see where meth would have some benefit in a N/A setup but nowhere near boosted applications. Biggest reason meth is good for boost is you can up the boost. Timing advance and leaner AFR works with straight water injection but not as much and can't up the boost same as meth allows.
To reduce KR and pinging a small amount of water injection theoretically works great as you don't need a different tune. Latent heat of vaporization with water provides intercooling effects, effectively reducing IAT. Not so much water it quenches the flame but just enough to turn fine mist to steam. Keeps your valves and pistons pretty too.
To reduce KR and pinging a small amount of water injection theoretically works great as you don't need a different tune. Latent heat of vaporization with water provides intercooling effects, effectively reducing IAT. Not so much water it quenches the flame but just enough to turn fine mist to steam. Keeps your valves and pistons pretty too.
FI guys youve got to realize 10hp in an NA setup is significant. Aint **** for boosted stuff, but a couple percent for us. Youve said your piece repeatedly, we hear you. Now post NA relevant data or move the **** along. Go start another thread to **** on this one and I promise ill link to it, thank you for your input
I was getting ping on 93 octane, I have fairly high dcr and timing set to kill. Water meth fixed it. The other option was to lose hp by increasing fuel or reducing timing. Instead I got 7whp more, no ping, smoother curve, a bit of a hit, all on a 95 degree day at 32 degrees of timing across the board, yippee. Everyone in this thread can weigh if it might be worth it for them...thats the beauty of posting measured ******* results for all to see. Im not selling ****, im not beating my chest, im not saying im right...im showing measurements.
I was getting ping on 93 octane, I have fairly high dcr and timing set to kill. Water meth fixed it. The other option was to lose hp by increasing fuel or reducing timing. Instead I got 7whp more, no ping, smoother curve, a bit of a hit, all on a 95 degree day at 32 degrees of timing across the board, yippee. Everyone in this thread can weigh if it might be worth it for them...thats the beauty of posting measured ******* results for all to see. Im not selling ****, im not beating my chest, im not saying im right...im showing measurements.
Last edited by therabidweasel; Jul 18, 2013 at 09:34 PM.
Unless the op has set his engine up with a loose ring pack, I doubt he will feel a vacumn pump is worth the cost. Here is a good example.
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...s-vacuum-pump/
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...s-vacuum-pump/
LOL...I think Im at the $100/whp point anyway. My now 31k mile motor had 1-2% cold leakdown on 7 cylinders so im doubting I could get much from a vac pump. Still though, more cubes and an ewp are pretty much my only remaining options...hadnt been considering vac, but who knows, I suppose its a possibility.
Back on topic though, another fairly hot day and no ping. Im averaging a little less than half a gallon of water/meth per tank, still running Mobil 93. Still feel like im getting a decent hit when the big jet kicks on, but its pretty much timed with TC lockup, so its hard to be certain.
Snow mentioned that I might be using too slow a burn rate fuel or too wide a gap. They expect a 20ish whp bump. Im running 0.045" on TR6IX plugs. No plans to change, just FYI.
Back on topic though, another fairly hot day and no ping. Im averaging a little less than half a gallon of water/meth per tank, still running Mobil 93. Still feel like im getting a decent hit when the big jet kicks on, but its pretty much timed with TC lockup, so its hard to be certain.
Snow mentioned that I might be using too slow a burn rate fuel or too wide a gap. They expect a 20ish whp bump. Im running 0.045" on TR6IX plugs. No plans to change, just FYI.
Rabid, it's seems like you've done exactly what you intended! Maybe it didn't gain much HP, but you don't have to worry about ping any further. As for the vacuum pump, I asked earlier, can you maintain A/C? Also, in a setup like rabid has here, with such a tight motor, would there be any gains?
LOL...I think Im at the $100/whp point anyway. My now 31k mile motor had 1-2% cold leakdown on 7 cylinders so im doubting I could get much from a vac pump. Still though, more cubes and an ewp are pretty much my only remaining options...hadnt been considering vac, but who knows, I suppose its a possibility.
Back on topic though, another fairly hot day and no ping. Im averaging a little less than half a gallon of water/meth per tank, still running Mobil 93. Still feel like im getting a decent hit when the big jet kicks on, but its pretty much timed with TC lockup, so its hard to be certain.
Snow mentioned that I might be using too slow a burn rate fuel or too wide a gap. They expect a 20ish whp bump. Im running 0.045" on TR6IX plugs. No plans to change, just FYI.
Back on topic though, another fairly hot day and no ping. Im averaging a little less than half a gallon of water/meth per tank, still running Mobil 93. Still feel like im getting a decent hit when the big jet kicks on, but its pretty much timed with TC lockup, so its hard to be certain.
Snow mentioned that I might be using too slow a burn rate fuel or too wide a gap. They expect a 20ish whp bump. Im running 0.045" on TR6IX plugs. No plans to change, just FYI.
I don't care what the website says, I care what actually happens with an LS motor. SBC logic doesn't apply here. 
Sheer curiosity, as I know you've blown a bit of dollar signs getting THIS far, but any plans to try the NitroBoost? Also again, thanks for going out and doing the testing and getting some results. Still hoping Snow pokes their head in here and talks...