Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

Wanted to ask about the break in as well, can we assume the rings are seated proper and we aren't losing power past the rings since there is no smoke coming out of the vent on the mighty mouse can........at least that's what the tuner said

fst100

iTrader: (5)

if the first 7 pulls were in the warm operating range of 185-195 and the IAT was at steady ambient like 70*F then towards the end of the 8-10 pulls operating temps shot up to above 200*F or IAT went up to like 85-90*F, if either the ECT or IAT is seeing higher than norm temps it'll adjust/lower timing gradually by 2-3 degrees. I've read that for every degree is about 4-5hp. would your tuner have log scans or able to post up your tune file?

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

Let me see what I can come up with, I'm assuming that timing can affect where a motor peaks at? So if it was adjusting timing that would explain the different peaks

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

The guy who runs the front desk at the tuner I went to is refusing to email me the data from the runs saying they don't help other tuners out, even tho i repeatedly said I just wanna review it. So I guess I'm bench testing things

Mazzenger

iTrader: (5)

I believe Andrew is the tuner at CSP. Try calling and see if he will talk to you about your concerns and brainstorm any ideas on the car.
I highly doubt he would have an issue verbally telling you basic info over the phone.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

he was helpful and took a few minutes to try a few things, and honestly i think he did everything he could do without actually doing a diagnostics on the car and i have no complaints with him. we talked about ideas while i was there and he just doesnt like my head choice for some reason idk y. i been emailing alex and i would hope that he talked to andrew about it rather than just answer for him, but after a few emails of me asking him he just says he wont do it, never got a real reason why just "we dont help other tuners", but at the end of the day they are helping me by attempting to get my car optimized. by he i mean alex, i have no clue if he talked to andrew or not. i just feel like his take on it is, if the car runs good great, if not, nothing we can do without charging you money to tear it apart. obviously thats not something you look for in a shop.

fst100

iTrader: (5)

i still have your vin/pcm unlocked don't I? I can take a peak at what the timing is set up at. unless the shop you took it to has it locked.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

no they dont lock it, and honestly i dont wanna go that far yet because i feel if it was pulling timing or knocking he would have noticed. this weekend i have a compression and leak down planned, as well as trying to bench test the tps and IAT. i also would like to wait to continue further until i get these 18" extensions off and get an actual exhaust on it which happens on thursday morning, cause who knows how that is affecting things as well. the shitty thing is i wouldnt mind the tune getting checked up on after the exhaust but right after the exhaust is on im driving it to maryland for the weekend

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

i did talk to mamo and he really thinks the intake is choking this thing, and says i need to start there, but my concerns are still the heat issue which wouldnt be occurring because of an intake, and he agrees that is also an odd factor here.

tuboy19

There's some details being left out here. You wanted to have the street tuning finished up by someone else (for anyone wondering why, the car was not road worthy when brought into us for tuning or ready for tuning when it initially got to us). You said they needed they WOT logs to review to dial that in. If you're having someone else tune the car, we don't assist with that - at that point we normally say it is on them. I did ask Andrew and he said not to send logs over in this case then.

I wasn't just trying to charge you but we are a business and if we perform services, we charge for them... I don't see how that is unfair. That is how everyone in the shop puts food on their plate for themselves and their families, I'm just the bad guy because I'm the one responsible for accepting payments. Nor did I ever say anything about us tearing anything apart? I did say you're probably going to be advised to check the swipe pattern by Mamo but never even offered for us to do that as I assumed you would.

Normally I let this stuff slide but you're making me out to be the bad guy here and left out the fact that you were going to take the car elsewhere. I don't have a problem if you need to go elsewhere because you need the street tuning wrapped up and scheduling doesn't line up for coming back another day, but if you're going somewhere else, that process is with them.

99blkfrc99

Amen brother. OP should gets his ducks in a line before bringing it in to get tooned.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

I'm not goona turn this into a pissing battle with a sponsor, sorry as I feel you are also leaving other details out.

I have no complaints with how Andrew handled anything, as I mentioned earlier and I never said anything that came down on CSP. Just because i may choose to look elsewhere for help doesnt mean i need to come down on anyone or spread the word. The most important thing to me is getting my car running, and think it's odd that rather replying to my last email you decide to come on here. My biggest complaint is that I was never given a reason as to why the logs can't be handed over to assist in trying to diagnose something. I don't no if it's just something tuners don't do that's why I asked.

99blkfrc99

They tuned your car for the parts you have on it. Just because it doesn't make the same numbers as someone else's don't mean nothing. You came on here asking for help so maybe you should listen. Both Darth and Mamo said the issue is probably in your intake. Why don't you believe them. They the smartest mf'ers around these parts.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

Mamo agrees that the temp thing is odd as well. I believe darth may have touched on it as well. I'm curious as to how you are familiar with the tune they did on my car.

Maybe I should listen? A few people have recommended timing issues from tps or iat.... and I said I will be bench testing them, but I guess I'm not listening. Sorry I'm not ready to shell out the 1500 for a ported mad. If i was it would be on there by now. It will be on their eventually, but I think we truly need to exhaust all options, like leak down and compression as recommended to me. One thing I learned is you don't throw parts and spend money right away, start small and start cheap.

I never said the intake isnt an issue, but I believe there may be another issue at hand, that's what this post is about. I also need to get an actual exhaust on the car which is next Thursday, not just these 18 inch extensions. That will help make sure a small percentage of air isn't getting pulled back in and the o2 sensors are reading leaner than what they are. Not sure if that's possible or not.

After I use up all the other options, I will accept that the intake is next step and get one

andrewzpsu

First off, I want to say that I appreciate your business.

I will take full responsibility for not sharing logs - they are not available to Alex to share. You informed us you were having another tuner finish your car and that's where I draw a line - if another tuner is playing with your car and messes it up, I want no part in that.

When you got here, we spent quite some time getting it ready for the dyno. Before dynoing we got it ready by removing 7 month old gas, and fixing the radiator coolant lines that were hooked up backwards (overflow hooked up to rad, coolant bypass hooked up to the cap). Before putting it on the dyno, we spoke about your exhaust job. Open headers to flex pipes are not a proper exhaust and can possibly make for issues when you put a proper exhaust on the car. Heck, you asked us to take off the flex pipes, then reinstall them, just so we could put the car on the dyno. Luckly they are flex pipes and we were able to push them up so it wouldn't get caught on our lift (which has custom ramps made for the extreme lowered cars). I took pictures, but I don't feel the need to post them here. And we spoke about how you should have put the 2 inch headers you are going to install on before tuning, because you will need a retune when you do, or at least a check up. We also spoke about because of how far off the alignment of the car was off, that we would not be doing any street tuning, but will do it another day when it is street worthy. These were things Alex told you about before bringing your car to us as well. After this clarification, and you still wanting to proceed, we then put your car on the dyno.

During and after dynoing, we spoke at length on the on the possible things holding your numbers back. We went over the logs for quite some time together in person, giving all the possibilities on why your car was not making the power you expected. From your aftermarket rear end, to the vacuum being pulled at full throttle, to improper valvetrain geometry, all the way to the setup being wrong for your goals. I can't stress how much we covered all the bases here. But I did say there would be some power to be gained by intake changes since vacuum was being pulled at full throttle. The odd dip, I think you'll find you may have slightly too much preload. But again, I covered as many bases as possible with as good of an educated guess as possible as we didn't build the car. We even did extra pulls at your request on your car after I had taken it as far as I would go safely (I have peak limits on where I'll set a customer's AFR and timing at, and you were there as we inched up to it from many pulls), while I had the next customer waiting to be tuned.

After dynoing, I told you we would do the street tune another day after you get the car aligned, but you'll have to schedule it. I told you to make a written list of the things we'll need to touch up so we can be quick and efficient with that process. You came back that same day, while I was still working on the later tune and were upset that we couldn't street tune you that day. Instead of scheduling a time to do the street tuning portion, you now want to have someone else do it and want our logs. Unfortunately that just puts me in a position that I can't help with. The moment someone else tunes the car, its their responsibility. But don't worry, I don't lock the tunes or anything so if you do want to go somewhere else, you can.

Just to be clear, I'm perfectly happy to street tune your car if it is now road worthy. You just need to schedule that with Alex and we'll get you taken care of.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

andrew glad you were able to step in here. and i will mention again, i had no issues with any services you provided and think you did absolutely everything you could possibly do to get as much out of the combo as you could, and i also appreciate you looking into the throttle body and cable being an issue. once again thanks, and as soon as you told me it was 115 and the other car was due on the dyno at 1, you volunteered to do 1 more pull and i said lets do 2 if you can then get it off the dyno. i have no issue with the level of service you provided.

there really is a miscommunication about the street tune tho, i certainly wasnt bothered that i couldn't get it done. i had 2 goals that day, get the rings broken in, and get the alignment done. if i got lucky and got some street tuning than thats awesome, but i knew that would be a stretch because i was working with your business needs as well as the alignment shops business needs. i even said it early in the day we couldn't street tune after the dyno because the alignment was so screwed up with me replacing arms and the steering rack. maybe alex misinterpreted my body language and or tone when i came back after the alignment, but i was only in the office for 30 seconds when i accepted that it just wasnt goona happen today and i left, just glad we got the alignment done and the motor broken in

i would have rather you emailed me directly and kept this conversation between you and me but now i have to come out and say what my personal concerns....you know what i cant do that.....sorry its just not in me, because it will be doing no benefit for you or me, but if you want to hear my real concerns than feel free to reach out to me. i never voiced up about what RPM in delaware did to me that actually pushed me your direction and in my opinion they did a lot worse than what i feel happened with this time around on the dyno. idk maybe im just impossible to please

but i dont want someone else to tune it because i think you did a bad job, simply put, i took a day off of work to get it done on the dyno and i just cant take another day off for a street tune. you are about an hour away from my house and 1.5 hours from my work thats why someone local i know was able top take a quick stab at it but also i wanted the logs just to help put to rest that it wasnt pulling timing for any reason (if you go back to my earlier posts, i defended your tune quality and said i dont really think it was pulling timing because you obviously would have known) simply put, getting someone to quickly touch up on the street tuning benefited me because it could be done on a weekend when i am off, as well as benefits you because even tho it came with the price of a tune, you guys still would have to take time out of your day where you could be making money off of providing service to someone else, vs giving me 15-30 minutes of a "free" street tune. not sure if that makes sense, but i never asked for tuning advice for free. i know you already gave alll the advice you had to give.

as far as the exhaust, not sure what else i could have done besides extensions after the headers, since the car shouldn't have been driven, the old exhaust wouldnt fit with the headers......i couldn't tow it to an exhaust shop because it would have had to be pushed onto the lift and obviously we cant do that. and the 2" kooks i didn't want to put on because i didn't want to ruin the ceramic finish during break in

and on that note, if anyone else has anything else i can test this weekend, i plan on draining the break in oil and putting in a new filter with the rest of the br30, checking the plugs, i will heat gun each exhaust next thursday after the exhaust is on and the engine is at temp, as well as hopefully running a compression and leak down barring that auto zone tools arent broken

ZNix

iTrader: (1)

Can you post a picture of your intake setup? I looked through your thread and couldn't find anything about it.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

the entire air going into this thing side is a little undersized and not optimal, but shouldn't be providing enough restriction to cause the lower numbers....but who knows.

SSRA
Fast toys 98 lid, sealed pretty good
AEM dry flow filter, (i kinda wish i thought about removing this during the dyno session just to see how it affected things)
85mm gm maf
nick williams 90 throttle body
stock ls7 intake

andrew didn't think i had much of an issue with any of this stuff, or at least he didn't mention it when i asked. he said the kpa numbers arent the best but said he has seen stock ls7 intakes and tb support decent numbers

SoFla01SSLookinstok

Hope all works out for you. In my opinion your power graph looks pretty good. But. The induction/intake setup is most definitely holding hp back. As you have a H/C 427 now. That's pretty close, induction, as on my 383. As it could still be better.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

the curve itself is fine, my biggest concern is the numbers when warm vs numbers when hot......who knows, maybe the msd will fix that but seems like a stretch. when comparing it to HC z06 cars that i say the majority make around 575 wheel, i thought that i should be closer to a consistent 550 wheel instead of the one time 532 and the rest 15-20 less than that.

maybe the miracle will happen, when i put the 2 inch kooks on there and the ported msd in a year as well as making changes to whats in front of the intake maybe it will pull out another 70hp somehow and no longer have the heat issues