Camaro SS 2002

I had my car dyno tuned today with the following mods: TSP airlid, Shaner S3 ported TB, Kook's LT's, Kook's catted Y pipe, Hooker catback. After tuning, my best run was only 339rwhp 349rwtq. What a slug I have!!!!! It was 98 degress so I dont know if this had anything to do with the low numbers? I had my car dyno tuned PRIOR to the LT's and ported throttle body and pulled 329rwhp 347rwtq. During this dyno tune it was only 66 degrees. So I only gained 10rwhp 2rwtq from LT's and a ported TB, tuning. On top of that my numbers are horrible. My tuner said the california gas is **** cause my car was pinging. He went into details about how he couldnt mess with my timing because of the gas, but I didnt quite understand.

xp3nd4bl3

I don't know, those numbers aren't bad for a few bolt-ons through cats and a full catback. Who tuned the car? Yes, our gas sucks nuggets, but your tuner should have been able to get rid of the pinging. That much is for sure.

Camaro SS 2002

Mike Morgan tuned my car, he's great. He did get rid of the pinging, it was just a statement that he made. He said he couldn't do what he wanted to with the timing because of the shitty gas, or something to that effect.

LSs1Power

iTrader: (5)

Try getting rid of the cats and add a cutout at the I-pipe. I gained alot of HP and TQ when i did that.

2000Blackout

iTrader: (1)

If your getting detonation,your definately losing some thing there.We have shitty gas here in AZ and I have no ping at all.With a good tune you should have none.How much KR are you getting?

Camaro SS 2002

Im pretty ignorant when it comes to the engine lingo(detonation, KR, etc..). Ive heard these words before but im not exactly sure what they mean. Again, he did tune out of all the pinging, and I do remember him saying my car was very sensitive to knock retard. Mike Morgan is a VERY GOOD tuner, and I trust he got everything out of my car that's possible. It was about 100 degrees outside as well, if that means anything...

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

Acutally, I would say that based on what you have those numbers are what I would have expected with your mods. You are just used to the misleading information on the forum about all of the gobs of power made by these little bolt ons. Headers and exhaust are normally good for somewhere between 20-25 RWHP. If you are buying your gas at BP, Amaco, Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Mobile, or Chevron then your gas is fine. The companies are highly regulated so dont worry about it. To help improve your "bad Gas" situation, check to see when the place you buys gas gets there refill. If they are at the end of the week when the tanks are close to empty, dont get gas there, because you could end up with sediment from there tank. If you want to help clean up your tank that has bad gas in it, go to your local drug store and buy a .90 cents bottle isopropal Alcohol and poor it in your tank with a full tank of gas. This will cause the mixture to burn a little hotter and help clean it up while cleaning the injectors and valves. The Alcohol will also help to dry up all of the water in the tank if there is any. Installing headers should not require any modifications in the ECM. The ECM is capable of adjusting itself with small modification like headers and exhaust, larger Throttle Body, better flowing airbox, even a blower with 5 lbs or less of boost from a supercharger. The ECM is much smarter than the unexperienced people on this forum. Take your car back to the dealership and have them reflash your computer back to stock. Then go to the parts department and order yourself a new Corsa exhaust and sell those hookers. These are the best flowing sets of exhaust you can buy for your fbody. Period. Leave your CATs on your car. If they are fairly new they are not a restriction. You are not moving enough air through the system for it to matter. If you want the maximum effort from your cats, go spend the money for a set of Random Flow CATS. Look at my numbers in the signature, FULL CATS with REAL 02 sensors. I completely spanked that rumor. The realilistic loss from a set of good cats on a high horsepower motor is 20-25hp. With the power I am making, I wanted my car to pass inspection, WHICH IT DID. Forget the Cutouts.

On Another note.
If this is the same Mike Morgan that use to own Morgan Motorsports, he cannot be trusted. This person took money from customers, and then closed shop without sending them their product or giving th.em their money back. If you are concerned about your tune, I would have someone else check it out. If it is not the same person I apologize for comment. If it is the same person, I would keep the car as far away as possible from him.

Hope this helps to disprove any misleading information you may have been given.

Also remember this one thing. All stock 02 Ta/Camaros did not make the same RWHP from the factory. The numbers ranged from 295 to 315 at the tires.

In regards to TEMP and DYNO numbers, lets go ahead and disprove that mess, the numbers in my signature were done when it was reading 100 degrees outside and the tune on my computer is very very mild. It is nowhere as agressive as it could have been. I would not have expected on a Normally Asperated car more than 5 RWHP increase on a cooler day, and maybe 10 in dead of winter.
You can see the dynograph at www.pergee.net/~lunapark/dynograph.html.

Good luck with your car.
Private message me if you would like some help.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

Even with correction factors for the dyno, it is still going to produce worse numbers in higher temps. Colder air just equals more HP. I think it is worse here cause we have 100 degres ans 100% humidity all the time, wereas ya'll may not have much humidity. For comparisons sake. My 02 made 333/344 with a lid and a catback. With nothing more than a long tube swap, I would expect at least another 20-25.

Camaro SS 2002

333/344 are GREAT numbers for just a lid and catback, especially for the weather you're describing. Being that it is as hot over here, not as humid, you can understand my frustration.

Unusual T/A

I made 333/348 with a lid and catback at 1200 miles in 105 degree heat with blistering humidity. This was with my 02 Ws6. So dont let that bs about the weather become an excuse for his bad tuning abilities. I also made 344/357 with a lid, catback and pulley. Then when I added headers I made 368/378. Your afr looks way lean to me, I would add more fuel. All cars are not the same, try richening it up especially down low, a lot of ls1's like to have a richer afr, like 12.5 or so. Also the cats ditch them, and put a bullet in place of your hooker catback if you want more power. Good luck

Camaro SS 2002

Thinking back, my car only made 318/333 with a lid and catback, STOCK tuning. So after LT's w/cats, ported TB, and tuning I gained 21rwhp 16rwtq which isnt THAT bad. Maybe I just have one of the weaker LS1's.::who knows::

black00TA

iTrader: (3)

on the comment about gas.
i live in MO and we have 93 here. and everytime i fillup at a major gas station like a shell or a mobil. my car runs like ****, but if i put it some 92 oc from sinclair or QT(small gas stations) my car runs like a bat out of hell. hope that helps, my .02

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

Still dont think that tuning is required for those mods.

Camaro SS 2002

My tuner said prior to the tune, I was running lean and my timing needed to be adjusted.

Kens_02SS

iTrader: (11)

Look at my results, i'm running lean also but have had the cam in now for about 5 months now, no biggy unless your running at WOT all the time. Mike will tell you alot of things just to get your $500 Don't get me wrong he knows his stuff and all but like they've said before, you really didn't need a tune yet

btw my dyn results are in here also with the 226/228 cam with no LTs

Camaro SS 2002

I only paid $350, but that's beside the point. Are you guys saying I would be better off with a stock tune with my mods? This might seem like a stupid question, but I need clarification.

Krazy98Z28

iTrader: (12)

I think with the low octane gas you guys have avaliable he couldnt put all the timing he wanted to in the car. Did he say how much timing the car had at WOT? I disagree with not needing a tune after a header iinstall.

Marco

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

yes.

Your stock computer is more than capable of making some adjustments on its own based on what the O2's are reading.

you can have a gaind from Lid, Headers, exhaust, Throttle Body, by just installing the equipment. You do not need to make any adjustments to the computer as of yet. You would be better off going back to the dealer, and having them reflash the computer.

remember, tuneres are in the market to make money. I have only seen one tuner on this list that flat out offered to help anybody who asked. Every single one of the others does not want to share. The whole point of having a forum is to share information. Right?, Mike just wanted your money and for him to tell you that you needed the tune goes to show just how much he doesn't know about the LS1, and its ECM.

By replacing the lid, headers and exhaust all you are doing is helping the engine breathe a little better. I would expect based on my experience 25 on the low side and 40 on the extreme high side. What you have done is removed the restriction that was installed from the factory. You have not added any fuel nor have you added any air at this point. The amount you are adding from the lid, is not worth 5RWHP. There was an artilce in GMHighTech where they tested all of the lids. Proving all of this.

You do not need to mess with the computer unless you are adding fuel or gobs of air from a turbo or blower making more than 5lbs of boost.

Hope this helps.
Bryan

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

I think this is the worst info I've seen in a long time.Obviously you have no idea of what tuning does Maybe this guy's tune is no good,but it looks about right to me.A 98 degree day will give lower #'s.Even with the SAE correction factor because the air is to thin for the motor.Tuning is about the getting the whole setup to work properly.I can garrenty you I will get alot better throttle response,midrange power with just shooting 1 tune into an LS1,expecially his 2002.Makes me alittle sick just to read this

Third Gear

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I'd have to agree you are running on the lean side - about 13.6 or higher. Most engines are "supposed" to make the best power with 12.5 to 12.9:1 A/F ratio at WOT. Although this is not gospel.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the WOT tables completely unrelated to short term fuel trim and timing? It was my understanding that the PCM can learn to compensate for all these mods for part throttle operation, but it can't perform at optimum with the stock power enrichment table (although it is very good already obviously). I agree that although a tune is usually not "needed" with bolt ons. It can help bring out that extra edge of 3% or what have you in output.

Also I don't think the O2 sensors have anything to do with WOT as our O2 sensors can only read a narrow range around stoichiometric - 14.7:1 for part throttle. Only wide band O2s can read anything much lower or higher than that.

So I'd say possibly you might want to look into another tune from someone else if he's unable to nail your A/F ratio. But then what do I know? Good luck to you! Man... I need to get some LTs...