vinci accelerated lift cams
12-05-2004, 07:23 PM
#41
Maybe we need two separate threads ... what does "accelerated lift" mean? Sounds alot like "fast ramp" or however you'd describe the Comp XE lobe - in other words, an aggressive lobe ramp that maximizes lift across the duration of the valve event. And FWIW, I find Gman's explanations of rocker geometry completely convincing.
12-05-2004, 07:25 PM
#42
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don't need a thread. just need to look it up on their website is all. http://vincihighperformance.com/LS1V...RTSPARENT.HTML
12-05-2004, 07:27 PM
#43
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Thanks RevGTO, I've had a little experience in the area...Worked for Pontiac Motors for 2 years in the engine and cylinder head division...Had a chance to interact with alot of different areas of engine design and manufacturing...
Peace...Gman
Peace...Gman
12-05-2004, 07:44 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Gman2002Z06
Thanks RevGTO, I've had a little experience in the area...Worked for Pontiac Motors for 2 years in the engine and cylinder head division...Had a chance to interact with alot of different areas of engine design and manufacturing...
As for the Vinci website, I've thoroughly browsed it, as well as doing searches ... the theory sounds great - that's why I'm interested. But what do the dyno and the track have to tell us?
12-06-2004, 11:53 AM
#45
Why would you link to an advertisement when someone asks for technical information?
Basically the rocker lifts and sets down the valve fast, and is slower throughout the rest of the lobe. So, open faster=good, but set down harder bad=valvefloat.
So in other words, its just another way off manipulating valve motion like we have said - which can also be accomplished by picking the correct cam lobes. However, under no circumstances would I want a high ratio rocker arm setting the valve down on any of my motors where valve float may be a concern.
The theory has been well hashed out, but dyno numbers anyone? Track numbers?
Basically the rocker lifts and sets down the valve fast, and is slower throughout the rest of the lobe. So, open faster=good, but set down harder bad=valvefloat.
So in other words, its just another way off manipulating valve motion like we have said - which can also be accomplished by picking the correct cam lobes. However, under no circumstances would I want a high ratio rocker arm setting the valve down on any of my motors where valve float may be a concern.
The theory has been well hashed out, but dyno numbers anyone? Track numbers?
12-06-2004, 12:13 PM
#46
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How about a cam with a lobe that opens fast, closes 90% fast,then tapers off to a nice and easy close. This way you still get the most max open time but still avoid float. Hell, companies may already do this. I have never seen a diagram of a good modern cam before so I don't know. I just like to think out loud and here responces and maybe come up with new and better ideas.
12-06-2004, 01:31 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
Why would you link to an advertisement when someone asks for technical information?
Basically the rocker lifts and sets down the valve fast, and is slower throughout the rest of the lobe. So, open faster=good, but set down harder bad=valvefloat.
So in other words, its just another way off manipulating valve motion like we have said - which can also be accomplished by picking the correct cam lobes. However, under no circumstances would I want a high ratio rocker arm setting the valve down on any of my motors where valve float may be a concern.
The theory has been well hashed out, but dyno numbers anyone? Track numbers?
Basically the rocker lifts and sets down the valve fast, and is slower throughout the rest of the lobe. So, open faster=good, but set down harder bad=valvefloat.
So in other words, its just another way off manipulating valve motion like we have said - which can also be accomplished by picking the correct cam lobes. However, under no circumstances would I want a high ratio rocker arm setting the valve down on any of my motors where valve float may be a concern.
The theory has been well hashed out, but dyno numbers anyone? Track numbers?
oh and here test run #5 vs test run #6 for track results on her car. http://www.stealthram.com/99formulatimeslip.html
Last edited by mrr23; 02-05-2005 at 03:49 PM.
12-06-2004, 01:59 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
Basically the rocker lifts and sets down the valve fast, and is slower throughout the rest of the lobe. So, open faster=good, but set down harder bad=valvefloat.
So in other words, its just another way off manipulating valve motion like we have said - which can also be accomplished by picking the correct cam lobes. However, under no circumstances would I want a high ratio rocker arm setting the valve down on any of my motors where valve float may be a concern.
So in other words, its just another way off manipulating valve motion like we have said - which can also be accomplished by picking the correct cam lobes. However, under no circumstances would I want a high ratio rocker arm setting the valve down on any of my motors where valve float may be a concern.
how about this for a reason to have the rockers. maybe they don't want to change cams. they like the driveability they have now. maybe they just want a little more out of the cam they have now. whether stock or aftermarket. man goes out and buys a cam. loves what it does. but wants just a little more. you'll just tell them to buy another cam?
i'd rather go with rockers and stronger pushrods to add in valvetrain stability over stock components with a larger cam with aggressive lobes.
12-07-2004, 12:24 AM
#49
Well, they call the cams - not just the rockers - "accelerated lift" and so I was interested in what was unique about their lobe design and what results people are getting from the cams. I like the idea of designing for more torque under the curve. But it doesn't seem that there's much real-world experience with these cams on this board.
12-07-2004, 12:21 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by RevGTO
Well, they call the cams - not just the rockers - "accelerated lift" and so I was interested in what was unique about their lobe design and what results people are getting from the cams. I like the idea of designing for more torque under the curve. But it doesn't seem that there's much real-world experience with these cams on this board.
12-07-2004, 04:48 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by mrr23
as far as people using the cam, check in the truck section. many truck guys are using their cams with good success.
12-07-2004, 06:29 PM
#53
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Hey Critter,
There is only 2 members using the Vinci camshafts in the truck crowd, that I am aware of. They are catching on quick over there. They read, until there is good feedback on a product and then jump all over it, even if they don't understand it (harsh, but the truth). Type in Comp 212/218 in the Truck V8 section, and you'll see what I mean.
I wouldn't call Marc W's experience much of a fair comparison. He went from:
6.0L SS camshaft - TR220 - #047 (210/218)
The 220 didn't offer the power range he was interested in, so of course going smaller pleased him. This is just my take, but he is the one to talk to since it was his experience.
The other feller went with the #062 Crane. Same as the #047 but with more lift and more duration @ higher given lifts.
There is only 2 members using the Vinci camshafts in the truck crowd, that I am aware of. They are catching on quick over there. They read, until there is good feedback on a product and then jump all over it, even if they don't understand it (harsh, but the truth). Type in Comp 212/218 in the Truck V8 section, and you'll see what I mean.
I wouldn't call Marc W's experience much of a fair comparison. He went from:
6.0L SS camshaft - TR220 - #047 (210/218)
The 220 didn't offer the power range he was interested in, so of course going smaller pleased him. This is just my take, but he is the one to talk to since it was his experience.
The other feller went with the #062 Crane. Same as the #047 but with more lift and more duration @ higher given lifts.
12-07-2004, 06:30 PM
#54
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well here's one in the ls1 engine section by the guy i mentioned marc_w.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/241161-yacq-yet-another-cam-question.html
here's one from www.woracing.com gamedawgx53 using the 062 cam. same as 047 but with more lift. he posts here also. and this post has 1/8 mile results.
http://woracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45
in here is where marc_w did some tlaking about the 047 cam in his truck
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...1&page=1&pp=20
some talk in here about the vinci cams. even one with "the boss" cam that made 402 rwhp.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...70#post1913170
quiet tahoe is another truck guy using the 044 cam and 1.89 rockers
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...93#post1705193
GOOSE JR. runs the boss cam in his corvette.
mark wodtli just won his ACCO class supercharged punisher package and suspension package
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...highlight=ACCO
http://vincihighperformance.com/fbodyls1.html
http://vincihighperformance.com/fbodyls1.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/241161-yacq-yet-another-cam-question.html
here's one from www.woracing.com gamedawgx53 using the 062 cam. same as 047 but with more lift. he posts here also. and this post has 1/8 mile results.
http://woracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45
in here is where marc_w did some tlaking about the 047 cam in his truck
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...1&page=1&pp=20
some talk in here about the vinci cams. even one with "the boss" cam that made 402 rwhp.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...70#post1913170
quiet tahoe is another truck guy using the 044 cam and 1.89 rockers
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...93#post1705193
GOOSE JR. runs the boss cam in his corvette.
mark wodtli just won his ACCO class supercharged punisher package and suspension package
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...highlight=ACCO
http://vincihighperformance.com/fbodyls1.html
http://vincihighperformance.com/fbodyls1.html
12-07-2004, 06:48 PM
#55
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here's a guy that put the 062 cam in his Z06 vette
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/226448-z06-cam-overlap.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/226448-z06-cam-overlap.html
12-07-2004, 11:46 PM
#56
Yeah, I read those truck threads some time ago ... evidently, they're good truck cams. I picked up on this thread hoping to learn more, but there's clearly a lack of f-body guys using them. Again, I'm interested in the concept of keeping close to the stock rpm range, but maximizing torque all across it. That's what Vinci claims, and I was hoping to see some guys with our cars who had results.
12-08-2004, 10:09 AM
#57
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the thing about the truck section is they are using the car cams. the 047 is listed on the car page. not the truck page. the guy in the z06 vette posted he picked up 30 rwhp with the 062 cam. and the one link that posted 402 rwhp in his fbody using the 'boss' cam. not everyone that uses vinci cams post. but i will be putting the 047 in the wife's 99 formy after the vinci heads go on. unfortunately that got pushed back when i broke 2nd gear in my 00 formy. right in the middle of testing bassani's new dual exhaust i've been posting about.
by the way, VHP will be at PRI with Crane.
by the way, VHP will be at PRI with Crane.
12-08-2004, 02:02 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by mrr23
here's a guy that put the 062 cam in his Z06 vette
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226448
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226448
12-08-2004, 02:44 PM
#59
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1007730 here maybe some of mark campbell's posts can help you out. he's VP of R&D for Crane.
most likely reason why you don't see any comparisons of VHP/Crane vs everyone elses cams is because of advertising. VHP hasn't been advertising on this board as long as the others have. as mark campbell explains, they are late getting into the LS1 game also. comp got the jump in first. so, that's why everyone uses comp to make their cams. Crane dominates in the NASCAR and other arenas like that for many years. and it's in those arenas where you'll see using higher ratio rockers vs bigger cams. mark touches on that subject in a couple of his posts.
most likely reason why you don't see any comparisons of VHP/Crane vs everyone elses cams is because of advertising. VHP hasn't been advertising on this board as long as the others have. as mark campbell explains, they are late getting into the LS1 game also. comp got the jump in first. so, that's why everyone uses comp to make their cams. Crane dominates in the NASCAR and other arenas like that for many years. and it's in those arenas where you'll see using higher ratio rockers vs bigger cams. mark touches on that subject in a couple of his posts.
Last edited by mrr23; 02-05-2005 at 03:50 PM.
12-08-2004, 03:00 PM
#60
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here's something QuietTahoe posted
Originally Posted by Quiet Tahoe
FWIW, I just happened to open up "Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets" published by SA Design last evening. On pages 83 and 84 he is talking about achieving a more radical opening rate of the valve. He talks about 3 ways of achieving this: 1) change the lobe profile, 2) increase the lifter diameter, or 3) increase the rocker ratio. After discussing the pros and cons of each method, Ole Smokey says, "So in my opinion, if you are in a situation that calls for increased "valve action" and you are considering these three options, I feel that raising the rocker ratio is unquestionably the best choice." Now that's just Ole Smokey's opinion and he surely wasn't always right, but after all of the testing he did, this comment speaks volumes. BTW, most of what is claimed to be "modern science" and is quoted on this website can be found in one form or another in Sir Harry Ricardo's book " The Internal Combustion Engine" , published in England in 1927. Nothing is really new with the ICE, just better materials and electronic management of air, fuel and spark and other control factors!!