i dyoned 408, incase you missed my first post

nic tuned the car for me.

 

I agree there will be a slight difference in oxygen content in the air, but 20-30 rwhp is a little hard to swallow...especially when we have bolt-on LT1s rolling 314 rwhp, cammed LT1s in the 340 rwhp range, bolt-on LS1s in the 350+ range and cammed LS1s in the 400-420 range. These are pretty much dead on with the rest of the country. Do you guys have any hard evidence of this 20-30 rwhp difference? I'm asking in all honesty, because I haven't seen any real evidence of this yet.

 

I never said anything about how much or that large of a difference. 20-30 rwhp just because of air quality is rediculous and I wouldn't believe that at all. I would guess 5-10 rwhp just with the difference in air. Being able to ramp up the timing and higher compression with 93-94 octane is a whole different thing.

 

I thought I remembered you saying something about a 20-30 rwhp difference. Guess not.

Even factoring in the slightly lower O2 content of the air and being able to run a few more degrees of timing, I'd still say we are only down maybe 5-10 hp from other states. I was just curious if any of you guys had actually dynoed a car here and in another state, with the same mods and seen a significant difference.

 

air density is one thing....that’s a result of temperature, altitude, etc. but oxygen levels related to plants in the local area is incredibly insignificant (yes there will be SOME.....but it's down there....0.00000000000000000000_ ....who knows how many points out)......go take an oxygen reading outside and then go up on the top of Mt Everest....it's still 20.7 or so....the entire AIR is thinner (less molecules per given amount of space) but the %s of different gas are still the same.......gases are gases and they move all over the world......if you get down to reading the differences in "plant oxygen" then you have to consider pollution, dust, water vapor on a given day, etc.......

 

The closest comparison that I made directly is between phoenix and washington. A car that I tuned ran 12.80s here in phoenix. He went to washington with it later on and with a very close DA he went 12.50s. Everything else was the same and consistant, no wheel spin or anything. That was a huge difference, especially considering the DA was nearly identical. Also just for a comparison all the TR224 cam only full bolt on cars I have dynoed here are around 370-380 rwhp, while back east I see them churning out 390-400 rwhp. I never claimed to know exactly what the difference in air quality makes, just that I know it is there and it does affect us.

 

No ****.

 

What did the mph do on those 2 runs?

 

If I remember correctly it went up 2 mph in washington compared to here.

 

Interesting. I'm still curious if anyone has done any dyno results that show a similar gain. Track times are, IMO, way too variable to draw conclusions from, even if the DA calculator says the conditions were similar. I've seen a 2 mph variance on the same night with (obviously) the same driver/conditions.

I don't know that we are down much hp on the dynos here given the dyno numbers I stated earlier. You watched Mike's bolt-on LT1 roll 314 RWHP with a/f in the 12.2-12.4 range, that's a strong bolt-on LT1 even if you dyno in NJ. Verbs dyoned 363 or something with a bolt-on '99 LS1, again, very strong no matter where you dyno.

 

You guys are right.
I give up.

 

I'm just trying to understand you guys' rationale man. Not trying to argue with you.

 

On heads/cam cars you are also forgetting that we have to run about half a point less compression as well.....That in itself is probably 5-8rwhp or so.....

 

My car is a 2001, not a 99, and the car was setup for roll racing a.k.a. dyno queen....lightened driveshaft, lightened flywheel, lighter wheels/brakes, every bolt on in the book, etc.......I've seen similar setups in the 370+rwhp in other areas.

FWIW I ran a 13.5@107 in Phx bone stock and then went out to Carlsbad and ran a 13.3@109.5 in nearly identical conditions (DA wise)....unless Carlsbad is downhill I can't think of any other reason this happened?

 

Oops, thought your car was a '99. What exactly did it put down with bolt-ons? I understand you had every bolt-on, but 363 or whatever it rolled is still very strong.

Ironically, I ran my LT1 in AZ and Carlsbad as well w/in a week of each run and ran 1 mph faster in Carlsbad.

As far as compression goes, I have 2 friends who have built 11:7 - 12:1 stroker LT1s and had no problems in Phoenix on 91.

Whether you guys are in agreeance with SSonyoursix in that we are 20-30 rwhp lower than other states is up to you. I have personally seen numbers very similar to the rest of the country...like I said, MAYBE 5-10 hp at most but that's just my opinion, you will think what you think.

 

My car made 363rwhp/372rwtq, without LS1 edit tuning, an LSX manifold, or waterpump and was through a full exhaust. I had a few dyno friendly mods like pullies, aluminum flywheel, and carbon fiber driveshaft, but also had a 12 bolt in the rear which probably evened things out .

I don't think you can compare LT1 strokers to LS1 stock cubed motors; apples to oranges.

I know we're down on power compared to other areas, I think how much is fairly subjective to opinion. However, my track runs along with Bryce's track runs seem to indicate roughly a 20-30rwhp discrepancy based on trap speeds in Phx versus locations on the west coast with similar DA's in both locations.

 

LT1s are reverse cooled, thus the head is cooled first, allowing more compression.


All this pissing, the cam flat out works when combined with the rightmods and good tuning.

If Nic and Mike want to run timing at what they say works best, Im not going to doubt them.

Enough of the pissing contest. Anyone who wants this cam, we have it in stock. We reccommend AZ Power and sound for your installations in Arizona, and Mike probably even stocks this cam with the amount we ship to him

 

Sounds like your car would have been right around 370 w/a few more mods.

I've seen trap speeds that bring the difference closer to ~ 5-7 rwhp...however, track times aren't dyno numbers. We are talking about dyno numbers. Another example I saw recently was a (I believe) stock '02 LS1 dyno 332 rwhp. I believe this was HammerAZ's car. Granted, it's an SLP optioned car, but 332 is the top of the dyno spectrum for that car.

It's all subjective, so let's just leave it at that.

 

Trust me, I know about LT1s. Reverse cooling or not, 12:1 on pump 91 will allow an LS1 to run some decent compression.

You saw a pissing match, this is polite conversation at this point.

 

UM, details? I forgot, is your car an A4 or M6?