Another disappointed result, TR 224
Dont get up in all the dyno talk. There is too many variables and never base your happiness on the results of the dyno like everyone else on here. Its a tuning tool only. I dynoed 333 rwhp with a cam only TR224 with the supporting bolt ons. I ran 11s in all weather with a best of 11.63 @ 114 with a 1.60 60.' Ask all the dyno Queens what they run in the quarter and see what kind of answers you get.
RE: Dyno vs Track
Before every shop had a dynojet, people would actually run their car at the track to see how *fast* it was. Imagine that. Over half the sigs on the message boards I read now have dyno numbers with no times.
Before every shop had a dynojet, people would actually run their car at the track to see how *fast* it was. Imagine that. Over half the sigs on the message boards I read now have dyno numbers with no times.
Originally Posted by gogogadget
RE: Dyno vs Track
Before every shop had a dynojet, people would actually run their car at the track to see how *fast* it was. Imagine that. Over half the sigs on the message boards I read now have dyno numbers with no times.
Before every shop had a dynojet, people would actually run their car at the track to see how *fast* it was. Imagine that. Over half the sigs on the message boards I read now have dyno numbers with no times.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
Originally Posted by SideStep
I have worked on three in the last two months with the same combo and all pulled 360ish (sae) before tune. These all did have a LS6 intake though. The tuning got two in the 370+ range and the other right at 380. I would be interested in knowing your spark advance at the highest g/cyl fill vs. the entire rpm range at WOT. Also, was there any KR logged?
I also had an ls6 intake at the time, also had an UD pulley a hooker exhaust and my drivetrain was all stock so no loss due to 12 bolt etc. Spark advance would be whatever a 2001 is stock, I want to say 24 degrees at WOT and maybe up to 30 something at part time throttle, can't remember to be honest but its whatever the stock tune is. No knock, I also had a ported throttle body and lid.
Infact here is the dyno, it says hpp3 but its not, we tried the run before it with the hpp3 which actually dyno'd lower, then made it stock but never changed the description.
What are the drive train loss %'s for A4's and M6's? I was wanting to take your dyno Mike K. and do the correct % to get your acutal power at the crank, then do it for mine for the A4 and get mine at the crank and see how big of a difference there is, im thinking more and more that it may be the fact that im still on the ls1 intake, w/98 heads and no pulley, i still pull (and i use pull very lightly here as its not much) on my friends 02 M6 which put down 328/352, so i dont think the reading is off, im just trying to figure this out, thanks guys
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
for manuals its about 15% which is almost right on the dot cause I have actually had my motor dyno'd on an engine dyno before at one point and on the engine dyno it was like 591 hp, x that by .15 and you get 88.65 hp and at the time I dyno'd right at 500 rwhp.
They say like 18% on an auto. So take yours 331 x.18 and you get 59.58
331 + 60 = 391 flywheel hp.
on my manual with the 224 it would be
372 * .15 = 55.8
372 + 56 = 428 flywheel hp for me at the time so there is a 37 hp difference between our motors.
Lets say you add ls6 and gain 15 hp then add a UD pulley which could be 10 you are looking at a 12 hp difference or if you go modesst on the gains of the ls6 say 10 hp and 5 for the ud there is a 17 hp difference between our cars at that point which really is not that much. Just some simple stuff that comes to mind. You did get your dots lined up dot to dot right? no advance or extra retard when putting in the cam?
does your car sound noisy? if the preload is off on those rockers/lifters that can cause alot of power also.
They say like 18% on an auto. So take yours 331 x.18 and you get 59.58
331 + 60 = 391 flywheel hp.
on my manual with the 224 it would be
372 * .15 = 55.8
372 + 56 = 428 flywheel hp for me at the time so there is a 37 hp difference between our motors.
Lets say you add ls6 and gain 15 hp then add a UD pulley which could be 10 you are looking at a 12 hp difference or if you go modesst on the gains of the ls6 say 10 hp and 5 for the ud there is a 17 hp difference between our cars at that point which really is not that much. Just some simple stuff that comes to mind. You did get your dots lined up dot to dot right? no advance or extra retard when putting in the cam?
does your car sound noisy? if the preload is off on those rockers/lifters that can cause alot of power also.
Intake and what exaust do you have? Those number are low for that cam, regardless of what it runs at the track. They will be less due the the a4, but not that low. ls6 intake and a ported tb should pick you up quite a bit. What exaust are you running? That will make a difference as well. I put down 375/375 cam only with an m6 but I know I left a little on the table with the tune even though the a/f was right on 13.8 the whole time, there was still more to be had with better tuning.
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Here's what you need to do IMO: Go to the track, do your best and post back with your ET, 60', trap speed, and vehicle weight (if your track has a scale). That is the best way to know if you have somehting wrong or not. If the car performs at the track, you are putting the power down, nomatter what that last dyno pull tells you.
A dyno is a tuning tool, that's it! For all you know, the place where you went might have been having problems with their dyno, or the operator didn't really know how to use it properly.
[Dennis Miller Voice]
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
[/Dennis Miller Voice]
A dyno is a tuning tool, that's it! For all you know, the place where you went might have been having problems with their dyno, or the operator didn't really know how to use it properly.
[Dennis Miller Voice]
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
[/Dennis Miller Voice]
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Your numbers seem very low. Maybe there is something wrong with the dyno. Is the new "pull" you are experiencing psychological? TAKE IT TO THE TRACK. Race your friends car who dyno'd the same numbers as you did.
You Hp and Tq numbers show a huge difference. Usually, your torque is lower than your HP (LS1's). Thats just from what im seeing in most cam or H/C setups. I think your car s fine. Your HP is prolly about at what your torque is.
You Hp and Tq numbers show a huge difference. Usually, your torque is lower than your HP (LS1's). Thats just from what im seeing in most cam or H/C setups. I think your car s fine. Your HP is prolly about at what your torque is.
I guarantee without an ls6 intake your leaving 20 hp on the table., I've been this route before I have the same cam. I ran cam only without intake at first and was disapointed as well. Add an ls6 intake ported Throttle body and Under drive pulley and you'll gain what your missing. Others could be correct about the dyno being off but without all the supporting mods a cam wont produce as good as with, simple as that. As far as torque and hp if you tq is higher than you hp then your leaving some on the table from what I've seen. Its in the tuning or exaust at that point pro'lly. You havent stated what your running for exaust beyond LT's. A dyno is a tuning tool yes but it also measures for hp and tq and can be used as accurately as anything if the operator knows what they're doing. Mustang dyno is the best tuning tool out there from what I've seen. Its their deisel applications where they make their money as well.
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, New York
Originally Posted by Mike K.
Just some simple stuff that comes to mind. You did get your dots lined up dot to dot right? no advance or extra retard when putting in the cam?
does your car sound noisy? if the preload is off on those rockers/lifters that can cause alot of power also.
does your car sound noisy? if the preload is off on those rockers/lifters that can cause alot of power also.
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
Yep, something is amiss with the dyno. Follow everyone's advice in regards to tracking the car at the drags.
My 98 LS1 with 50,000 miles on it put down 331/345 to the wheels with just longtubes and a lid through CATS untuned.
My 98 LS1 with 50,000 miles on it put down 331/345 to the wheels with just longtubes and a lid through CATS untuned.
Originally Posted by gogogadget
RE: Dyno vs Track
Before every shop had a dynojet, people would actually run their car at the track to see how *fast* it was. Imagine that. Over half the sigs on the message boards I read now have dyno numbers with no times.
Before every shop had a dynojet, people would actually run their car at the track to see how *fast* it was. Imagine that. Over half the sigs on the message boards I read now have dyno numbers with no times.
Plus I dont have all the proper safety equiptment for what my car will run so I'm basicaly one run and done which eliminates sat or sun t+t for the cost it would take to make one run. Street legal drags happen when I dont have a baby sitter and my kids are to young to take to the track. Its a quandry, but I know I'll run 12's all day long the key is how low into the 11's I can go. But unitl I can get there.... 
Originally Posted by KNOURROL
I had this exact problem with my TR224. The car ran fine after the cam swap, but I actually slowed down at the track. I went from a 12.7 to a 13.1. Needless to say I wasn't very happy, but after putting the car on a dyno to see what was going on, it revealed that I was only making about 330 hp. The car totally fell on its face around 5200 rpms. After taking it apart, I found out I was one dot off. Fixed the problem, re-tuned and dyno'd and now I am putting down 384 and running 12.4's at the track. The car has A LOT less noise now coming from the engine bay. Hope this helps.
Wouldnt i be able to tell if there was a bad wire, plug, etc? I mean just by how it runs and how it ran on the dyno. I was wrong on the numbers it did 329/330 SAE, so its even worse, before the cam i did 316 341 so they figure the cam has timing ground into it. Heres the graph.
