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Hard to believe that people aren't freaking out about this: Rumors, LS blocks?????? 
I guess people are happy w/ their stock blocks? 
Hmmm.... oh well, carry on then. 
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
From: cyberspace
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
There has been many independent flowtests of AFR 205 cylinder heads....most have them just under or just over 300 CFM's. Every flow bench is a little different (alot having to do with fixtures, radius plates, clay, etc.) Seems the 225 Dart numbers were a little soft as well...perhaps the bench is very conservative or some other factors come into play here like the AFR heads were milled excessively etc.
Bottom line here is that we advertise accurately and guarantee our flow numbers to be plus or minus 2.5% which covers most issues in a production environment. If the owner of those heads would have contacted AFR we would have either improved his current heads or replaced them at no cost assuming we validated (on our equipment) that the flow numbers were indeed soft. I urge all of you to contact me personally if you're ever in such a position.
Let's keep this thread on topic and find out more about the Dart headed combination which looks very promising...
Thanks,
Tony Mamo
Bottom line here is that we advertise accurately and guarantee our flow numbers to be plus or minus 2.5% which covers most issues in a production environment. If the owner of those heads would have contacted AFR we would have either improved his current heads or replaced them at no cost assuming we validated (on our equipment) that the flow numbers were indeed soft. I urge all of you to contact me personally if you're ever in such a position.
Let's keep this thread on topic and find out more about the Dart headed combination which looks very promising...
Thanks,
Tony Mamo
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 4mula
i would be worried if i was you guys.
Originally Posted by Ksett
AFR has nothing to worry about. In reality that ported FAST 90/90 setup is worth 20rwhp and the heads are worth 40 rwhp gain over an LS1 head using 11.2:1 compression, with a large cam. Even though it can't compete with AFR I think this head is a good alternative to the lowend budget heads for just a little extra.
Someone's misinformed.
Here's Patrick G's setup:
472 rwhp/420 rwtq SAE
M6, AFR 205s, TR 233/235 .644/.598 112LSA TRak cam, Mamo ported FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm TB, EFI Live MAF-less tuning, Kooks 1 3/4" headers w/catted y-pipe, Spec 3 clutch, Ram FW, SLP Dual/Dual catback
With the extra drivetrain loss due to an IRS setup and an engine that has 78000 miles on it along with using a stock MAF and no speed-density tune, I'd say that they are a big competitor.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Kraest
It can't compete with AFR? Wow.
Someone's misinformed.
Here's Patrick G's setup:
472 rwhp/420 rwtq SAE
M6, AFR 205s, TR 233/235 .644/.598 112LSA TRak cam, Mamo ported FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm TB, EFI Live MAF-less tuning, Kooks 1 3/4" headers w/catted y-pipe, Spec 3 clutch, Ram FW, SLP Dual/Dual catback
With the extra drivetrain loss due to an IRS setup and an engine that has 78000 miles on it along with using a stock MAF and no speed-density tune, I'd say that they are a big competitor.
Someone's misinformed.
Here's Patrick G's setup:
472 rwhp/420 rwtq SAE
M6, AFR 205s, TR 233/235 .644/.598 112LSA TRak cam, Mamo ported FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm TB, EFI Live MAF-less tuning, Kooks 1 3/4" headers w/catted y-pipe, Spec 3 clutch, Ram FW, SLP Dual/Dual catback
With the extra drivetrain loss due to an IRS setup and an engine that has 78000 miles on it along with using a stock MAF and no speed-density tune, I'd say that they are a big competitor.
Originally Posted by Kraest
It can't compete with AFR? Wow.
Someone's misinformed.
Here's Patrick G's setup:
472 rwhp/420 rwtq SAE
M6, AFR 205s, TR 233/235 .644/.598 112LSA TRak cam, Mamo ported FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm TB, EFI Live MAF-less tuning, Kooks 1 3/4" headers w/catted y-pipe, Spec 3 clutch, Ram FW, SLP Dual/Dual catback
With the extra drivetrain loss due to an IRS setup and an engine that has 78000 miles on it along with using a stock MAF and no speed-density tune, I'd say that they are a big competitor.
Someone's misinformed.
Here's Patrick G's setup:
472 rwhp/420 rwtq SAE
M6, AFR 205s, TR 233/235 .644/.598 112LSA TRak cam, Mamo ported FAST 90mm intake, NW 90mm TB, EFI Live MAF-less tuning, Kooks 1 3/4" headers w/catted y-pipe, Spec 3 clutch, Ram FW, SLP Dual/Dual catback
With the extra drivetrain loss due to an IRS setup and an engine that has 78000 miles on it along with using a stock MAF and no speed-density tune, I'd say that they are a big competitor.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Wow, I got compared with this setup? I'm flattered. I'm just pleased that I've been able to make the numbers through cats and a single 3" exhaust. Maybe I need to upgrade my exhaust....on the other hand....nah!
THIS setup? You're going to have to check yourself, bud. This setup was a "low-dollar" setup through a Borla Exhaust, STOCK MAF, full belts, STOCK rockers, 30# injectors, STOCK fuel pump, all through a Vette drivetrain, which eats quite a few more % than a solid-axle. This setup would easily make 500rwhp in your car with your additional mods in your "race setup": EFI-Live SD tuning, A short accessory belt, Electric water pump, open exhaust, not to mention the mega-aggessive LSK lobes you're using on that cam. I DO believe you made 455 rwhp without the EFI live tuning, full belts, and no electric waterpump on your "street" setup.
If ANYTHING, I should be honored to be compared with YOUR AFR setup.
Give credit where credit is due. Don't be pissed at Dart for producing an awesome head! Maybe you can fool the AFR crowd into thinking your car wasn't an ALL-OUT build, but you can't fool me
EFI LIVE? Give me a break Cheers.
Mike
Great number from everyone LOL! But this is about the Dart heads and Kraest setup not a pissing match between two head venders. Just give the guy a little credit for a car that made good numbers and lets move on with out the comparison. Two cars same everything to the last detail will dyno differently and that is just the facts.