horsepower is from created from heat, so a "cooler" burn would not be good, but the increase in fuel/air density before combustion takes place is good. The circle track alky motors I've had experience with made about 4% more power versus gas...compression ratio's being the same....even down into the 10.5 range. If e85 became reality, 13:1 street cars become reality... So does mixing Nitro-methane in. So does running around with way more boost than you could on 93 octane.

I saw a thing in USA today about e85 causing food prices to go up. The fact is we've got subsidies in place that will go away when the governement feels the farmers are "making money", so a lot of the unfarmed land we have now will be back up in production.

I'm also curious about natural gas... propane makes less power as well per volume, but you can run 16:1 with it.. If gas prices keep going up, people are going to start experimenting more and this will become "common" knowledge. Another little article in the same paper was talking about a 75 year supply of natural gas. We also have a few people around here running their diesels on vegtable oil without problems.

 

The effect on corn for food, and corn for feed never crossed my mind.... may be a large role in meat going up as well........ may not be as good as I thought......

 

Couldn't they grow super plants that are not edible that could be bio engineered? That could cut down on the amount of land being used right?

 

Air fuel has to be richer cause there's less energy in the fuel thus you have to dump more in.

If in fact it makes more power than gas, it's due to the higher compression.

 

e85 is just as big of a pollutant as gasoline but unlike gasoline it produces a type of ozone that stays closer to the ground and gets in your lungs faster.

So lets recap the benefits of e85....costs more, worse MPG, just as dirty, might make a few more HP than gas due to higher octane ie: slower burning, and it's renewable...as if the middle east is running out of oil anytime this century. Oh another benefit...having to scrap lots of old school cars cause the cost of converting over to e85 would be too high. Bye Bye many a potential muscle car.

The reason the govt is pushing e85 is cause they're trying to ween the farmers off the teet. And rest assured, the big farm cooperatives are making plenty of money and getting the majority of subsidies. Another huge benefit for the govt is if e85 is the primary fuel used in the US then the subsidies paid out to the oil companies would also decrease. So that's 2 less piggies sucking the govt dry. Guess what...won't happen. That's like trying to ween people off welfare, it's been tried and it doesn't work.

The govt will allow gas prices to continue to sky rocket (you know they're always looking for your best interest, right?) as a means of pushing e85 onto the public.

But let's just say that e85 replaces gas and the subsidies to both the oil companies and the farmers go away, do you think they're gonna lower our taxes? Ummm think again.

 

Oh and speaking of pollution....

Why is it that cars are always to blame? When in fact the biggest polluters are jet planes and diesel trucks? You never hear of them being blamed do you? WHy...cause you can't mess with air traffic or trucking in our country. We're too dependent on both these means of trasport.

Back in the 60s and 70s the biggest polluters were factories, power plants, etc. But cars were once again at the focal point. LA's smog problems got better cause step were taken to clean up the emissions of these factories, power plants, etc. At the same time emissions controls were being introduced on cars. That helped too no doubt. But today's cars are pretty damn clean and yet there's still smog in LA. You could have only electric powered vehicles in LA and you'd still have smog. One big reason is cause LA is in a basin and that doesn't allow the pollution to escape into the atmosphere as readily. The other big reason is cause LA is a huge hub for trucking and air traffic.

But once again the govt picks on cars. Se la vi.

 

they can make e85 out of more than grain alcohol. They have bacteria that can break down cellulous into alcohol but its still being perfected. I mean weve been working on grain alcohol production for thousands of years. It just may take a few more to perfect the cellulous bacteria.
I dont care if they dont lower taxes at all. I would much rather have my money stay in this country than going to south america and the middle east. Plus It will open alot of new jobs for the american people. If they ever get e85 on base I will gladly convert my TA.

 

Don't care if they don't lower taxes? Guess you like working 6 months out of the year for free.

You pay your taxes, convert your car to e85 and then spend 4 bucks a gallon for it while getting worse mileage. The price ain't gonna go down with e85 you know, just up.

New jobs for the American people..LMAO..have you been watching the news lately? Why do you think they want to pass new laws to let people in as "temporary workers"? If Americans don't want the jobs being offered then it should go to the temps. And this will also help in keeping our borders safe. Wow....after 7 years in office he finally realized that illegal emigrants are coming over the borders in droves. As if the temp worker plan is ever gonna stop that. The plan is to also give them pensions back in their homeland paid for by.....you guessed it US.

What an idea and I love the premise of...if Americans don't want the jobs then a company can hire the temps. Who the **** wants or can survive on minimum wage, cause that's what all the employers are now gonna be offering so as to get the temps instead of Americans.

We've become a nation of spoon fed morons, problem is there's **** on that spoon but we keep eating it.

Govt used to take care of it's people, not anymore. Anytime they have a new proposal or idea you can rest assured that it's just some sugar coated ****. Nobody gives a **** about the middle class anymore, you know the life blood of a nation. We pay for everything, every idea and proposal (cause we're the ones paying taxes in this country - not the rich and not the poor) the people who represent us come up with. Unfortunately none of these wonderful ideas or proposals are aimed at helping the middle class out....just the poor and the rich.

Wait, I take that back....there is one and only one component in the middle class that does benefit...the small business owner. Small businesses get every break possible, can hire illegals left and right and no one cares. Whyy? Cause w/o small business you'd have no big business. We the consumer don't buy from big business, we buy from small business who inturn buys from big business. Big business runs this country and they make sure that their consumer stays fat and happy at the cost of the middle class of course.

 

I'm bummed out reading this rheteric.

I can't speak for the social implications of E85, but I know my car likes it. I use alcohols , Methanol and E85 because it works great in a turbocharged high compression engine with no intercooler. Couldn't run a 15:1 turbocharged engine with boost without it.
My two cents.

 

Why in the world would you want to? And I'm sure you could, the Buick guys used to run 13:1 compression and alot more than 10 psi on top of that with high octane race gas. The reason they did it was to minimize lag when running grudge matches against blown or sprayed Mustangs back in the day.

 

Run on gas I assume?
It has been tuned for race gas at 5 psig boost. The cylinder pressures are very high with this compression ratio plus boost and the plug gaps needed to be closed to 0.020" to be able to fire the mixture on gas. It also had to be run very rich to keep it out of detonation. It was an interesting exercise but gasoline was never in my long term goal, other than to be able to run on it if needed. Maximizing the power on Methanol and drivabilty with E-85 is the goal. Right now its at 1076 RWHP (see attachment below)on what I'll call M95 and down about 50 HP on E85, both with the 10 psig WG springs.

On the alcohols it has no problems firing the mixture with a much more conventional spark plug gap and has much better drivabilty. Right now the motor is being torn down for inspection and lower compression 13:1 pistons along with a turbo specific cam shaft. Hopefully it will be able to retain the existing power levels(or close to it) at the 10 psig boost level. If not I'll still be able to safely utilize the full capibilites of the turbos, 25 psig? with the lowered compression ratio. As they say the proof is in the pudding and I'll find out by the end of the month.