How would you go about narrowing the hp/tq split.
12-24-2006, 01:55 PM
#1
How would you go about narrowing the hp/tq split. I am curious as to why I am dynoing 500 wrhp but my rwtq is only about 450. From most of the dyno numbers that I have seen, the tq is usually about 20 lower than the hp. Not sure why I am having such a big split. Please see my sig for a mod list. I should mention that when I spray, the hp and tq are within 10 of each other. Also, I have no crossover or x-pipe in my exhaust. Not sure if it makes a difference but thought that it was worth mentioning. Any ideas?
12-24-2006, 06:04 PM
#2
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You should look at it from a perspective of what a:
346 should make RWTQ
388 should make RWTQ
402/408/410 should make RWTQ
427 should make RWTQ
434 should make RWTQ
452rwtq thru a manual transmission sounds "low" for a built 402. RWTQ should be right at 500rwtq if not over. IN your situation, you have the parts, so it could be a tuning issue.
Its definately something worth looking at, and by the way, getting your RWTQ fixed will pop the HP curve right on up.
- You prolly have a nice 550rwhp/510rwtq situation in the parts you alreday have.
346 should make RWTQ
388 should make RWTQ
402/408/410 should make RWTQ
427 should make RWTQ
434 should make RWTQ
452rwtq thru a manual transmission sounds "low" for a built 402. RWTQ should be right at 500rwtq if not over. IN your situation, you have the parts, so it could be a tuning issue.
Its definately something worth looking at, and by the way, getting your RWTQ fixed will pop the HP curve right on up.
- You prolly have a nice 550rwhp/510rwtq situation in the parts you alreday have.
12-24-2006, 06:41 PM
#3
Your cam makes poor dynamic compression (if it's truly installed -2). You need an ealier IVC to pump up DCR and torque. Try advancing the cam 4-6 degrees or choose a cam with better valve events.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
12-24-2006, 07:35 PM
#4
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Could he have a later IVO? Would that accomplish the same task? I'm trying to picture the valve events in my head. If the intake valve closer sooner, would that prevent charge from being expelled out the exhaust valve, leading to more compression, or is charge being prevented from entering the intake valve(due to the piston being on the upstroke with the intake valve still open)? I'm new at this...help me out Pat.
12-24-2006, 09:02 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Your cam makes poor dynamic compression (if it's truly installed -2). You need an ealier IVC to pump up DCR and torque. Try advancing the cam 4-6 degrees or choose a cam with better valve events.
What would you recommend with a lift limit of .615? I don't want anything choppier than the cam that I am currently using. Also, I do not have an under drive pulley or an electric water pump.
12-24-2006, 09:21 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Your cam makes poor dynamic compression (if it's truly installed -2). You need an ealier IVC to pump up DCR and torque. Try advancing the cam 4-6 degrees or choose a cam with better valve events.
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12-24-2006, 09:25 PM
#8
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113 - 2 115 icl
113 + 2 111 icl
comparison @.050 -2 / +4
244/248 113 -2
IVO 7 .. IVC 57
EVO 55 .. EVC 13
ICA 115 .. ECA 111
------------------------------------
244/248 113 +4
IVO 13 .. IVC 51
EVO 61 .. EVC 7
ICA 109 .. ECA 117
113 + 2 111 icl
comparison @.050 -2 / +4
244/248 113 -2
IVO 7 .. IVC 57
EVO 55 .. EVC 13
ICA 115 .. ECA 111
------------------------------------
244/248 113 +4
IVO 13 .. IVC 51
EVO 61 .. EVC 7
ICA 109 .. ECA 117
12-24-2006, 09:34 PM
#9
That's what I'm talking about. An intake valve closing point of 57 degrees ABDC at .050" is waaaaaay too late. You really want it closer to 50 degrees or even earlier to pump up the torque. And remember, pump up the torque and you will pump up the hp too.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
12-24-2006, 10:40 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
That's what I'm talking about. An intake valve closing point of 57 degrees ABDC at .050" is waaaaaay too late. You really want it closer to 50 degrees or even earlier to pump up the torque. And remember, pump up the torque and you will pump up the hp too.
esp. in your application .peace
12-25-2006, 10:19 AM
#11
So can you give me a cam spec that would work better with my setup? I just don't want to have to change my springs. They are good to about the current 615 lift mark. Please tell me specifically. Like lobe type and valve events. Pretty much exactly what I would need to now to call in the order on the cam. If you have a vendor in mind, I am all ears for that as well. I would love to see 500 rwtq numbers. If it could be done on a milder or same type lope cam, it would be even better.
12-25-2006, 10:33 AM
#12
I found the actual specs from the invoice on the cam.
Int. Lobe 3732 (244@0.050 .612" lift)
Exh Lobe 3734 (248@0.050 .615" lift)
111 L.S.A ground with an "ICL" 2 degrees retarded (111-2)
So does this change anything in terms of where things are happening?
Int. Lobe 3732 (244@0.050 .612" lift)
Exh Lobe 3734 (248@0.050 .615" lift)
111 L.S.A ground with an "ICL" 2 degrees retarded (111-2)
So does this change anything in terms of where things are happening?
12-25-2006, 11:56 AM
#13
If your cam is 111LSA, then you're halfway home. Just buy an adjustable timing sprocket and advance it 4 degrees. This will put your intake centerline at 109. You will make your best peak power at around 109ICL. If you advanced it to 107ICL, your torque would pump up even more, but you might lose a little power above 6500 rpm compared to 109ICL. Depends on what you're looking for.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
12-25-2006, 02:43 PM
#15
Originally Posted by eLTwerker
If LSA is 111, advancing 4 degrees would make a ICL of 107, wouldn't it??
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
12-25-2006, 03:24 PM
#16
Originally Posted by eLTwerker
If LSA is 111, advancing 4 degrees would make a ICL of 107, wouldn't it??
12-25-2006, 03:26 PM
#17
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If the retard is ground into the cam with it installed straight up dot to dot it would still be -2 113icl , advanced 2 degrees would put it at 111icl actual 0...+6 advance it would be 107icl from dot to dot correct , have to factor in this cam is cut retarded 
111 lsa -2 113icl /+2 (0) 111icl /+4 109icl /+6 107icl
111 lsa -2 113icl /+2 (0) 111icl /+4 109icl /+6 107icl
12-25-2006, 04:02 PM
#19
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244/248 111lsa -2 113icl
IVO 9 .. IVC 55
EVO 53 ..EVC 15
ICA 113 ..ECA 109
-------------------------------
244/248 111lsa +2 111icl
IVO 11 .. IVC 53
EVO 55 .. EVC 13
ICA 111 .. ECA 111
-------------------------------
244/248 111lsa +4 109icl
IVO 13 .. IVC 51
EVO 57 .. EVC 11
ICA 109 .. ECA 113
-------------------------------
244/248 111lsa +6 107icl
IVO 15 .. IVC 49
EVO 59 .. EVC 9
ICA 107 .. ECA 115
IVO 9 .. IVC 55
EVO 53 ..EVC 15
ICA 113 ..ECA 109
-------------------------------
244/248 111lsa +2 111icl
IVO 11 .. IVC 53
EVO 55 .. EVC 13
ICA 111 .. ECA 111
-------------------------------
244/248 111lsa +4 109icl
IVO 13 .. IVC 51
EVO 57 .. EVC 11
ICA 109 .. ECA 113
-------------------------------
244/248 111lsa +6 107icl
IVO 15 .. IVC 49
EVO 59 .. EVC 9
ICA 107 .. ECA 115
12-25-2006, 04:15 PM
#20
What does +4 do to my driveability?
Is there a way to advance it with just a cam sprocket or would I have to completely replace the timing chain set which I believe would require me to pull the oil pump to get the crank sprocket out. If cam sprocket is all that I need, where do I get one. I believe that I am using a standard LS2 timing chain set which I believe is the same as the LS1 set.
Is there a way to advance it with just a cam sprocket or would I have to completely replace the timing chain set which I believe would require me to pull the oil pump to get the crank sprocket out. If cam sprocket is all that I need, where do I get one. I believe that I am using a standard LS2 timing chain set which I believe is the same as the LS1 set.