VIDEO at Idle plus streetability and WOT with my 511rwhp / FTI
04-04-2008, 08:35 PM
#121
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A quick update.
On another forum a member asked a question about my PCV set-up...
First time we started my engine it had the Catch-can system I was using with success in my previous set-up, normally mounted as required by the manufactor and having the PCV functional.
It came immediately obvious that my new combo was not liking it (certainly Ed camshaft...), after the warm up, on full blip throttle acceleration there was a huge shadow of blue smoke coming out the exhaust in deceleration...the oil was coming from the intake through the PCV Catch-can system.
Jeremy Formato directely pointed the catch can the way it was mounted and recomended to go for a Cap-breather...it was changed in the instant before going testing on the road, Jeremy had brought one with him.
All the PCV exit lines were sealed with plastic caps he had as well.
Since then I have slightly modified the system, the principle stays the same, efficiency and oil vapors under the hood are more under control vs. the simple Cap-breather initially mounted.
Then the final set-up is a Catch-can with a Breather I mounted on the top of it, 2 lines coming from each Valve Cover and one line coming from the Valley Cover, all of them joining the Catch-can in the part helping the decanting of the oil vapors...no more oil consumption through the intake or smoke on decelleration, no other problems added.
General view from the right side
General view from the left side
Line from the Valley Cover 1
Line from the Valley Cover 2
Details from the left side
Connections to the Catch-can 1
Connections to the catch-can 2
Hope that anwer your question and will help
Christian
On another forum a member asked a question about my PCV set-up...
First time we started my engine it had the Catch-can system I was using with success in my previous set-up, normally mounted as required by the manufactor and having the PCV functional.
It came immediately obvious that my new combo was not liking it (certainly Ed camshaft...), after the warm up, on full blip throttle acceleration there was a huge shadow of blue smoke coming out the exhaust in deceleration...the oil was coming from the intake through the PCV Catch-can system.
Jeremy Formato directely pointed the catch can the way it was mounted and recomended to go for a Cap-breather...it was changed in the instant before going testing on the road, Jeremy had brought one with him.
All the PCV exit lines were sealed with plastic caps he had as well.
Since then I have slightly modified the system, the principle stays the same, efficiency and oil vapors under the hood are more under control vs. the simple Cap-breather initially mounted.
Then the final set-up is a Catch-can with a Breather I mounted on the top of it, 2 lines coming from each Valve Cover and one line coming from the Valley Cover, all of them joining the Catch-can in the part helping the decanting of the oil vapors...no more oil consumption through the intake or smoke on decelleration, no other problems added.
General view from the right side
General view from the left side
Line from the Valley Cover 1
Line from the Valley Cover 2
Details from the left side
Connections to the Catch-can 1
Connections to the catch-can 2
Hope that anwer your question and will help
Christian
04-07-2008, 10:56 AM
#124
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Building my combo I decided to run OLSD, then the MAF went out of the car...
Reasons were to eliminate any restriction from the MAF if any and to obtain a tune as smooth as possible with a tame idle and the opportunity to set some lean AFR at cruise...which I did.
Taking away the MAF, I was as well taking the Intake Air temperature sensor away.
I had to relocate it...and find the "best" place to mount it.
I have tried in the Air Filter, in the Cold Air Intake (more an Ambient Air Intake if want to be accurate in terminology) and in the same place as the Outside Temperature sensor.
The obtained results at WOT were very similar, difference was minimal and not significant.
Meanwhile I was recording a lot of disparities in city driving from day to day.
Altering the tuning was just a band-aid and the VE table was inconsistent day to day outside temperature related.
I finally opted for the option of mounting the IAT Sensor in the flow stream of the intake, the ERG support beeing a good spot in the FAST Intake:
From there I could dialed a solid consistant VE Table which is bringing me repetability from day to day outside temperature variation.
The algorithms of the Cylinder Charge Temperature and the stock Bias and Filter are working fine from 45* to 98* outside temperature now, and the IAT Sensor is recording a wide range of Temp able to change very quickly for the pleasure of the PCM...
Below are 3 screen shot of the IAT recorded going from Palm Beach to Sebring at 6am.
Three time the same log with the Average log, the Max log and the Mini log to give an idea of the amplitude of the changes:
AVERAGE IAT LOG:
MAXIMUM IAT LOG:
MINIMUM IAT LOG:
Don't ask me where, but I did some over 186mph on this log this morning (I was late...)
Christian
Last edited by miami993c297; 04-07-2008 at 02:06 PM. Reason: spelling
04-07-2008, 11:30 AM
#125
it's important to note that this is a great MOD for any f-body owner as our IAT sensors are located in the airbox. Because the airbox is located directly above the radiator, it gets heatsoaked very quickly after the car has been run and parked. When you go to turn the car back on, the IAT is reading a very high artificial number which in turn pulls tons of timing as well as throwing the Cylinder Air Charge biased out of wack. the other problem with the stock location is that it takes a couple of minutes after the car is running for it to cool back down due to poor air flow velocity over the sensor.
05-11-2008, 02:08 PM
#127
Well, I had IAT related issues as well when I was tuning my VE tables in OLSD mode. I was logging data going to work in the morning with ambient temps in the low 40s, and then on the ride home it was in the low 70s.
For some reason, it was overcompensating big time when the temp was cool in the morning. I was pig rich everywhere, I don't think I saw above 14.0 AFR the entire time, even while cruising at 1500rpm. Forget about when I started to put my foot in it, the AFR plumeted to 10:1, you would have thought that I was running a huge turbo or something.
But in the afternoon on the ride home with temps in the low 70s, my AFR wideband error ranged from -2 to +1 over the entire rpm range, which I thought was pretty spot on.
Maybe the difference is now that I picked up a Z06 85mm maf with the integrated IAT sensor, it's not getting as heat soaked as if it were in the intake lid? Maybe the f-bodies are more agressive to the cold temperatures since the IAT being in the intake lid doesn't allow it to get cold since the radiator below it keeps it warm? Does that makes sense?
I know in the past with the IAT in the lid, it wouldn't reach outside ambient temp in the winter. It was always 10-20 degrees warmer from the radiator. Now that it's in the maf, it's not getting heat soaked as much and I checked the weather report those mornings and my IAT was almost spot on to the ambient air temp.
I know someone had mentioned a table in HP tuners that can control how much extra fuel is added or subtracted based on IAT's, but I couldn't find it. Instead, I finished getting my VE table pretty close to perfect and I recconected my MAF and turned back on the fuel trims and re-enabled close loop.
I logged data last night when I went for a spin and with air temps in the high 40s, my measured air fuel was within 0.3 of the requested everywhere except for some weird throttle transistion spots like at 4500rpm and 2% throttle.
Anyway, my thread rant and hijack is done. I guess it boils down to asking about where in HPtuners to adjust the IAT's effect on fueling.
Thanks, and I appreciate your help Christian with sending the HPtuners file. I love my new lightweight flywheel. The throttle response is amazing and I actually picked up 2mpg to boot.
For some reason, it was overcompensating big time when the temp was cool in the morning. I was pig rich everywhere, I don't think I saw above 14.0 AFR the entire time, even while cruising at 1500rpm. Forget about when I started to put my foot in it, the AFR plumeted to 10:1, you would have thought that I was running a huge turbo or something.
But in the afternoon on the ride home with temps in the low 70s, my AFR wideband error ranged from -2 to +1 over the entire rpm range, which I thought was pretty spot on.
Maybe the difference is now that I picked up a Z06 85mm maf with the integrated IAT sensor, it's not getting as heat soaked as if it were in the intake lid? Maybe the f-bodies are more agressive to the cold temperatures since the IAT being in the intake lid doesn't allow it to get cold since the radiator below it keeps it warm? Does that makes sense?
I know in the past with the IAT in the lid, it wouldn't reach outside ambient temp in the winter. It was always 10-20 degrees warmer from the radiator. Now that it's in the maf, it's not getting heat soaked as much and I checked the weather report those mornings and my IAT was almost spot on to the ambient air temp.
I know someone had mentioned a table in HP tuners that can control how much extra fuel is added or subtracted based on IAT's, but I couldn't find it. Instead, I finished getting my VE table pretty close to perfect and I recconected my MAF and turned back on the fuel trims and re-enabled close loop.
I logged data last night when I went for a spin and with air temps in the high 40s, my measured air fuel was within 0.3 of the requested everywhere except for some weird throttle transistion spots like at 4500rpm and 2% throttle.
Anyway, my thread rant and hijack is done. I guess it boils down to asking about where in HPtuners to adjust the IAT's effect on fueling.
Thanks, and I appreciate your help Christian with sending the HPtuners file. I love my new lightweight flywheel. The throttle response is amazing and I actually picked up 2mpg to boot.
05-11-2008, 03:43 PM
#128
Alchemist:
Great post on exactly what you are talking about and the IAT bias setting. I think it's only in 01 and 02 model OS's:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...light=iat+bias
Great post on exactly what you are talking about and the IAT bias setting. I think it's only in 01 and 02 model OS's:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...light=iat+bias
05-12-2008, 05:52 PM
#129
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The IAT support in the FAST intake is home made by a friend...
If I had to redo it I would choose a different material though, teflon or bakelite.
Christian
05-21-2008, 08:40 AM
#130
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Well, I had IAT related issues as well when I was tuning my VE tables in OLSD mode. I was logging data going to work in the morning with ambient temps in the low 40s, and then on the ride home it was in the low 70s.
For some reason, it was overcompensating big time when the temp was cool in the morning. I was pig rich everywhere, I don't think I saw above 14.0 AFR the entire time, even while cruising at 1500rpm. Forget about when I started to put my foot in it, the AFR plumeted to 10:1, you would have thought that I was running a huge turbo or something.
But in the afternoon on the ride home with temps in the low 70s, my AFR wideband error ranged from -2 to +1 over the entire rpm range, which I thought was pretty spot on.
Maybe the difference is now that I picked up a Z06 85mm maf with the integrated IAT sensor, it's not getting as heat soaked as if it were in the intake lid? Maybe the f-bodies are more agressive to the cold temperatures since the IAT being in the intake lid doesn't allow it to get cold since the radiator below it keeps it warm? Does that makes sense?
I know in the past with the IAT in the lid, it wouldn't reach outside ambient temp in the winter. It was always 10-20 degrees warmer from the radiator. Now that it's in the maf, it's not getting heat soaked as much and I checked the weather report those mornings and my IAT was almost spot on to the ambient air temp.
I know someone had mentioned a table in HP tuners that can control how much extra fuel is added or subtracted based on IAT's, but I couldn't find it. Instead, I finished getting my VE table pretty close to perfect and I recconected my MAF and turned back on the fuel trims and re-enabled close loop.
I logged data last night when I went for a spin and with air temps in the high 40s, my measured air fuel was within 0.3 of the requested everywhere except for some weird throttle transistion spots like at 4500rpm and 2% throttle.
Anyway, my thread rant and hijack is done. I guess it boils down to asking about where in HPtuners to adjust the IAT's effect on fueling.
Thanks, and I appreciate your help Christian with sending the HPtuners file. I love my new lightweight flywheel. The throttle response is amazing and I actually picked up 2mpg to boot.
For some reason, it was overcompensating big time when the temp was cool in the morning. I was pig rich everywhere, I don't think I saw above 14.0 AFR the entire time, even while cruising at 1500rpm. Forget about when I started to put my foot in it, the AFR plumeted to 10:1, you would have thought that I was running a huge turbo or something.
But in the afternoon on the ride home with temps in the low 70s, my AFR wideband error ranged from -2 to +1 over the entire rpm range, which I thought was pretty spot on.
Maybe the difference is now that I picked up a Z06 85mm maf with the integrated IAT sensor, it's not getting as heat soaked as if it were in the intake lid? Maybe the f-bodies are more agressive to the cold temperatures since the IAT being in the intake lid doesn't allow it to get cold since the radiator below it keeps it warm? Does that makes sense?
I know in the past with the IAT in the lid, it wouldn't reach outside ambient temp in the winter. It was always 10-20 degrees warmer from the radiator. Now that it's in the maf, it's not getting heat soaked as much and I checked the weather report those mornings and my IAT was almost spot on to the ambient air temp.
I know someone had mentioned a table in HP tuners that can control how much extra fuel is added or subtracted based on IAT's, but I couldn't find it. Instead, I finished getting my VE table pretty close to perfect and I recconected my MAF and turned back on the fuel trims and re-enabled close loop.
I logged data last night when I went for a spin and with air temps in the high 40s, my measured air fuel was within 0.3 of the requested everywhere except for some weird throttle transistion spots like at 4500rpm and 2% throttle.
Anyway, my thread rant and hijack is done. I guess it boils down to asking about where in HPtuners to adjust the IAT's effect on fueling.
Thanks, and I appreciate your help Christian with sending the HPtuners file. I love my new lightweight flywheel. The throttle response is amazing and I actually picked up 2mpg to boot.
Glad you picked up 2mpg...and a better thottle response!!!
At least referring to my own experience and multiple testing in various condition, with the 2002 PCM, the placement of the IAT sensor is critical.
In my case having the sensor in the air box was creating a variation in AFR from 50* to 90* of more than one full point...
One important factor to have everything in line is about the Cylinder Charge Temperature Bias table...and the one in the 2002 VCM is the best I tryied.
JTLYK
Christian
05-21-2008, 10:20 AM
#132
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There was no problem there...only an old man habit used to isolate from any radiant heat sources the fuel lines, trying to keep the fuel density in an acceptable zone...I am not sure it is necessary in an LS application but there was some material for this purpose in the racing team truck and I did ask for a piece to play with!!!
It can't hurt though!!!
Christian
05-21-2008, 12:11 PM
#134
Hi Brien,
There was no problem there...only an old man habit used to isolate from any radiant heat sources the fuel lines, trying to keep the fuel density in an acceptable zone...I am not sure it is necessary in an LS application but there was some material for this purpose in the racing team truck and I did ask for a piece to play with!!!
It can't hurt though!!!
Christian
There was no problem there...only an old man habit used to isolate from any radiant heat sources the fuel lines, trying to keep the fuel density in an acceptable zone...I am not sure it is necessary in an LS application but there was some material for this purpose in the racing team truck and I did ask for a piece to play with!!!
It can't hurt though!!!
Christian
05-21-2008, 12:53 PM
#135
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The material is the DEI Heat Screen Radiant Matting.
I can't post a link of it in my thread as it is not coming from a sponsor... then I send you a PM right now...
May I send you an email on my new BIG project please???
Christian
Nice car bud
05-27-2008, 12:22 PM
#137
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Hi SSquid,
Thanks for the kind words...and I like much more my Vette than my glove
My car is waiting for a LS3 416 Short-block actually in the building process at HK enterprise!!!!
I will have to sell soon my LS6 short block that went through a "Leak Down Test" with numbers between 5% and 6%, perfection...
The cometic 0.040 will be included as well as the Katech Rod Bolts and the OEM LS6 complete clutch assembly.
Time for more power
Christian
Thanks for the kind words...and I like much more my Vette than my glove
My car is waiting for a LS3 416 Short-block actually in the building process at HK enterprise!!!!
I will have to sell soon my LS6 short block that went through a "Leak Down Test" with numbers between 5% and 6%, perfection...
The cometic 0.040 will be included as well as the Katech Rod Bolts and the OEM LS6 complete clutch assembly.
Time for more power
Christian
