vindicatorII dyno #'s
Originally Posted by Josh@MASPORT
if we have to trade some money for customers to know that we did our very best so that they are happy now and down the road, then its very worth it.
Originally Posted by Josh@MASPORT
also erik would only steer people away from big cams if we can see thast not what their car is going to be used for, if someone came to use and said he wants to make the most power with the best track times we wouldnt steer him from anything BUT a big cam....
Originally Posted by mudflap1989
That is a very respectable comment, many shops don't feel that way.
But what I'm saying is that many people might even want a big cam even if they don't take it to the track. For instance, I took my Z06 to the track one time and I never plan on taking it back. I had a 235/240 cam in it and soon I will put a Vindicator in it. I'm willing to deal with all of the challenges that go along with a big cam. Big cams are not only for the track, many people want them on the street too.
But what I'm saying is that many people might even want a big cam even if they don't take it to the track. For instance, I took my Z06 to the track one time and I never plan on taking it back. I had a 235/240 cam in it and soon I will put a Vindicator in it. I'm willing to deal with all of the challenges that go along with a big cam. Big cams are not only for the track, many people want them on the street too.
But what about the guy who DD's his car in rush hour traffic...a big cam may not be for him..ya know?
Got any pics of your Z?
Here is what I am saying...we get many customers (usually younger guys) who hear about these big cams making power, so they want it. I then explain to them the effects of larger cams and what not.
I then take them for a ride in my SS (if they want to), which again has the MS3 and some nice heads, FAST, blablabla. They realize that it takes a lot to get to the peak, probably more than they though before...
It is then that they may or may not choose a smaller cam to the larger...all I want to do is inform them, give them a feel for it, and make them happy in the end!
I do appreciate your insight Mudflap, but understand my point here.
Also, Fairless basically told me to go "pound sand", so I spoke up.
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by ERIK@MASPORT
Also, Fairless basically told me to go "pound sand", so I spoke up.
These guys are very good about picking and choosing their argument points. First, they argue cam only cars do not make "power" till 7000 rpms. Then they argue you can't drive grandma to the store. Thirdly, they argue that a milder cam will make more powerdown low, and are more fun to drive.
The graph I posted was a comparison of my car will almost every bolt on vs my car with the addition of the cam package and 42lb injectors. The car is s easy as a stocker to put around with, rips from 3000 rpms up, and will out mph most anything without me having to take it to 6800rpms. So, Im sorry your MS3 car dissapoints youdown low, by my Vindicator does not.
Waiting on the mystery graphs, I will even give you my dyno file to overlay against whatever you come up with, just say the word.
Also, the argument about taking it to the track and running 99mph with it is getting old, its a convienant position to say that without knowing weight, tire, etc. Full weight fun street cars that make 450rwhp don't have to back it up with track numbers. Not everybody wants to run 10.9's with 400rwhp in a potato chip.
Last edited by 347fairless; Jul 27, 2007 at 01:10 PM.
This kinda like saying turbo's on car's are useless!!! Hell I only come into boost into the higher rpm's,but around town it is like a mild head's cam car! So i guess my turbo's are useless to,because I drive it around town. It is not useless,but it is there when i want or need it!It might seem useless to you, but to each his own!! If big cam's were useless then you would not sell any to anybody on the street and then you would be out!IMOA! 
Originally Posted by ERIK@MASPORT
First off, why only 6500 on the 1-2 (not hitting peak with that shift point, ESPECIALLY with that sized duration on a 346)??
Secondly, unless this car is going to be on the track weekend after weekend...how often are you going to take it up to 6800rpm+ on the streets? (this is an AGE OLD arguement many have had here)
Take it from the guys with big cam experience, they make SICK power no doubt, but 1/2 of it is USELESS unless on the track or some road racing where you keep the motor in the power band most of the time...
I would drive a 228/232 (or something along those lines) and enjoy a beefy power band all the from 2000+ rpm, then a BIG cam (which I am running now) which BLOWS below 3500 but HAULS @ 5500-7200...
Think about it..
Like I said though, to each his own, VERY nice numbers especially through a stalled auto!! Congrats!
Erik
Secondly, unless this car is going to be on the track weekend after weekend...how often are you going to take it up to 6800rpm+ on the streets? (this is an AGE OLD arguement many have had here)
Take it from the guys with big cam experience, they make SICK power no doubt, but 1/2 of it is USELESS unless on the track or some road racing where you keep the motor in the power band most of the time...
I would drive a 228/232 (or something along those lines) and enjoy a beefy power band all the from 2000+ rpm, then a BIG cam (which I am running now) which BLOWS below 3500 but HAULS @ 5500-7200...
Think about it..
Like I said though, to each his own, VERY nice numbers especially through a stalled auto!! Congrats!
Erik
Originally Posted by ERIK@MASPORT
First off, why only 6500 on the 1-2 (not hitting peak with that shift point, ESPECIALLY with that sized duration on a 346)??
Secondly, unless this car is going to be on the track weekend after weekend...how often are you going to take it up to 6800rpm+ on the streets? (this is an AGE OLD arguement many have had here)
Take it from the guys with big cam experience, they make SICK power no doubt, but 1/2 of it is USELESS unless on the track or some road racing where you keep the motor in the power band most of the time...
I would drive a 228/232 (or something along those lines) and enjoy a beefy power band all the from 2000+ rpm, then a BIG cam (which I am running now) which BLOWS below 3500 but HAULS @ 5500-7200...
Think about it..
Like I said though, to each his own, VERY nice numbers especially through a stalled auto!! Congrats!
Erik
Secondly, unless this car is going to be on the track weekend after weekend...how often are you going to take it up to 6800rpm+ on the streets? (this is an AGE OLD arguement many have had here)
Take it from the guys with big cam experience, they make SICK power no doubt, but 1/2 of it is USELESS unless on the track or some road racing where you keep the motor in the power band most of the time...
I would drive a 228/232 (or something along those lines) and enjoy a beefy power band all the from 2000+ rpm, then a BIG cam (which I am running now) which BLOWS below 3500 but HAULS @ 5500-7200...
Think about it..
Like I said though, to each his own, VERY nice numbers especially through a stalled auto!! Congrats!
Erik
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Originally Posted by mudflap1989
You do have right to say what you want, but it might not be profitable for your business, but that is your choice. Question: Why do so many shops offer such large cams? Answer: Because people want them, PERIOD, please understand that, but I do appreciate your concern to do what is right for the customer, but I don't think that steering everybody away from big cams is the answer, maybe your time should be more spent towards optimizing their set up with a big cam. I've had and have big cams and I am completely happy with them, everybody is different.
In the end I personally think it isn't worth it to get a huge cam unless the car sees 80% or greater track duty (not daily driven) or unless you need to compensate for something lacking somewhere else...
Just kidding
You put down great numbers and as long as you're happy with the car that's all that matters. I just try to put my $0.02 to help the
choose a streetable combo. 
It seems my graph got skipped over in all of the bickering earlier... I want to know where the Vindicator LOST power against our VRX3 ANYWHERE in the RPM range.... Saying a "big cam" is a bad thing should only hold true to POORLY DESIGNED "Big Cams".... I have several 40 yr old men driving Vettes with Vindicators in them and they couldnt be happier... Ive also got 19 yr olds with 98 SS that have VRX 2s/3s/ and 4s in them and they are happy. I believe it is a personal choice, but to continually say big cams are "bad" is a little out of the park...
Again, where did the big cam lose to the lil cam
Vindicator-240/244 112+4
VRX3-226/228 114+4
Both 02 Z06s with the same modifications with the exception of the camshaft....
BTW, if I havent said this to the original poster, congrats on your #s... Im glad YOU are happy with YOUR purchase
Again, where did the big cam lose to the lil cam
Vindicator-240/244 112+4
VRX3-226/228 114+4
Both 02 Z06s with the same modifications with the exception of the camshaft....
BTW, if I havent said this to the original poster, congrats on your #s... Im glad YOU are happy with YOUR purchase
Originally Posted by HUNTER02SS
This kinda like saying turbo's on car's are useless!!! Hell I only come into boost into the higher rpm's,but around town it is like a mild head's cam car! So i guess my turbo's are useless to,because I drive it around town. It is not useless,but it is there when i want or need it!It might seem useless to you, but to each his own!! If big cam's were useless then you would not sell any to anybody on the street and then you would be out!IMOA!
a quick example for the hell of it,
Erik peak horsepower/ torque rpm - 6800/5200
mine - 5100/4500
I start loosing power ar 5400 RPM!!!
we are not arguing that they dont make power, just that they have an extremely high powerband, please understand that.
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
It seems my graph got skipped over in all of the bickering earlier... I want to know where the Vindicator LOST power against our VRX3 ANYWHERE in the RPM range.... Saying a "big cam" is a bad thing should only hold true to POORLY DESIGNED "Big Cams".... I have several 40 yr old men driving Vettes with Vindicators in them and they couldnt be happier... Ive also got 19 yr olds with 98 SS that have VRX 2s/3s/ and 4s in them and they are happy. I believe it is a personal choice, but to continually say big cams are "bad" is a little out of the park...
Again, where did the big cam lose to the lil cam
Vindicator-240/244 112+4
VRX3-226/228 114+4
Both 02 Z06s with the same modifications with the exception of the camshaft....
BTW, if I havent said this to the original poster, congrats on your #s... Im glad YOU are happy with YOUR purchase
Again, where did the big cam lose to the lil cam
Vindicator-240/244 112+4
VRX3-226/228 114+4
Both 02 Z06s with the same modifications with the exception of the camshaft....
BTW, if I havent said this to the original poster, congrats on your #s... Im glad YOU are happy with YOUR purchase
jst kidding, ur example is dead right, but not all cams make power liek vengance, and we are talking about big cams in general.
its hard to argue with a cam that made 445RWHP on a cam only fbody, ya i remember that dyno thread!!!!
WELL anyways,
ERIK AND JOSH OUT!!
god i love forums
Then its simple, just buy a BIG vengeance cam and the argument is over. I dont know how many dynos I've seen of peoples cars making rediculous power from vengeance (from 3k-up) and they're not all tuned/installed by vengeance them selfs.
Originally Posted by 2000TransAmWS6
i would hate to think that i just read 4 pages of bickering and missed it...
what are the specs on the Vindicator II? 113LSA, what else?
what are the specs on the Vindicator II? 113LSA, what else?
Vindicator- For those who want the most power possible from their stock displament engine we are proud to offer our “VINDICATOR” camshaft 240/244 .608/.596 112+4.
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
Again, where did the big cam lose to the lil cam
Vindicator-240/244 112+4
VRX3-226/228 114+4
Both 02 Z06s with the same modifications with the exception of the camshaft....
Anyways I've heard things about these dyno numbers from Vengeance and there seems to be some controversy as to their legitimacy. Not saying anything, just do your research before believing all the numbers/hype that you see/hear on this site. Good luck everyone.
Originally Posted by chae
Straight from their website.
Originally Posted by mudflap1989
Wrong specs, those are the specs for the vindicator I. The vindicator II is on a 113 (I'm sure about this) and I'm 95% sure that it is only +2.
Hey guys, I am going to leave this alone too, I was just trying to help...I agree, to each his own, and I respect everyones thoughts and input, even it is was negative and directed towards me lol...
I just wanted to add that I did not realize that the vindicators have advance ground into them...I guess it is my fault for not checking the site...
When you add advance in a cam, it will improve power down low..for instance, a 228/232 on a 114 will have a slightly higher power band than say a 228/232 on a 112+4...
Maybe that is why the Vindicator cams have more "oomph" down low than its competitors larger cams...
Like I said the first post, congrats on the numbers...I am going to vacation!
PEACE!
Erik
I just wanted to add that I did not realize that the vindicators have advance ground into them...I guess it is my fault for not checking the site...
When you add advance in a cam, it will improve power down low..for instance, a 228/232 on a 114 will have a slightly higher power band than say a 228/232 on a 112+4...
Maybe that is why the Vindicator cams have more "oomph" down low than its competitors larger cams...
Like I said the first post, congrats on the numbers...I am going to vacation!
PEACE!
Erik
Originally Posted by chae
I'd like to see the comparison to a 228/232 .612"/.600" 112 LSA. The VRX3 is only a 226/228 .585"/.588" 114 LSA. I think there would be more of a difference down low, but maybe I am wrong.
Anyways I've heard things about these dyno numbers from Vengeance and there seems to be some controversy as to their legitimacy. Not saying anything, just do your research before believing all the numbers/hype that you see/hear on this site. Good luck everyone.
Anyways I've heard things about these dyno numbers from Vengeance and there seems to be some controversy as to their legitimacy. Not saying anything, just do your research before believing all the numbers/hype that you see/hear on this site. Good luck everyone.
So let me get this straight... We are discussing how larger camshafts dont have the bottom end that smaller camshafts do and you want me to compare a larger 228/232 to put things on a level playing fieldinstead of a smaller 226/228??? That makes no sense at all.....
Not sure where the "controversy" is on our dyno #s, as our packages have been duplicated, if not bettered all across the country..... Do some research on the TRACK times our packages are producing before making comments like you have... We have cam only cars trapping over 121mph in 3400lb cars and heads/cam cars trapping in the 130s...
Goodluck with your "Street Sweeper" cam.. I heard ole 5'3" named that after a shotgun from back in the day... I guess he has plenty of time to think in his one bay garage he calls a shop... LMFAO!!!!!
