N4cer

iTrader: (11)

I don't know what graphs you've compared, but I've overlaid 350hp LT1 graphs and 400hp LS1 graphs and the LT1 always has more grunt until about 3500rpm.

mudflap1989

iTrader: (4)

That is a very respectable comment, many shops don't feel that way.

But what I'm saying is that many people might even want a big cam even if they don't take it to the track. For instance, I took my Z06 to the track one time and I never plan on taking it back. I had a 235/240 cam in it and soon I will put a Vindicator in it. I'm willing to deal with all of the challenges that go along with a big cam. Big cams are not only for the track, many people want them on the street too.

ERIK@MASPORT

iTrader: (32)

I hear what you are saying, and yes, some people DO want the big cam, and don't give a rat's *** about power under the curve, driveability, idle, etc.
But what about the guy who DD's his car in rush hour traffic...a big cam may not be for him..ya know?

Got any pics of your Z?

Here is what I am saying...we get many customers (usually younger guys) who hear about these big cams making power, so they want it. I then explain to them the effects of larger cams and what not.
I then take them for a ride in my SS (if they want to), which again has the MS3 and some nice heads, FAST, blablabla. They realize that it takes a lot to get to the peak, probably more than they though before...

It is then that they may or may not choose a smaller cam to the larger...all I want to do is inform them, give them a feel for it, and make them happy in the end!

I do appreciate your insight Mudflap, but understand my point here.

Also, Fairless basically told me to go "pound sand", so I spoke up.

347fairless

My comment was directly related to your comment about driving grandma's to the grocery store. I will drive your Grandma there any day of the week.

These guys are very good about picking and choosing their argument points. First, they argue cam only cars do not make "power" till 7000 rpms. Then they argue you can't drive grandma to the store. Thirdly, they argue that a milder cam will make more powerdown low, and are more fun to drive.

The graph I posted was a comparison of my car will almost every bolt on vs my car with the addition of the cam package and 42lb injectors. The car is s easy as a stocker to put around with, rips from 3000 rpms up, and will out mph most anything without me having to take it to 6800rpms. So, Im sorry your MS3 car dissapoints youdown low, by my Vindicator does not.

Waiting on the mystery graphs, I will even give you my dyno file to overlay against whatever you come up with, just say the word.

Also, the argument about taking it to the track and running 99mph with it is getting old, its a convienant position to say that without knowing weight, tire, etc. Full weight fun street cars that make 450rwhp don't have to back it up with track numbers. Not everybody wants to run 10.9's with 400rwhp in a potato chip.

HUNTER02SS

iTrader: (24)

This kinda like saying turbo's on car's are useless!!! Hell I only come into boost into the higher rpm's,but around town it is like a mild head's cam car! So i guess my turbo's are useless to,because I drive it around town. It is not useless,but it is there when i want or need it!It might seem useless to you, but to each his own!! If big cam's were useless then you would not sell any to anybody on the street and then you would be out!IMOA!

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

PewterScreaminMach

iTrader: (7)

Nice numbers!

If I was the original poster, I would delete this mockery of my thread and repost...

chae

iTrader: (8)

Excellent advice. I would only sacrifice about 10rwhp going with 228/232 112 LSA in comparison to a 236/242 112 LSA. I'd rather have power from 2000-6600 RPM than 3500-7200 RPM. I won't be doing gears until I install a beefed-up 12-bolt/9-inch/Dana 60, so it would suck driving on the street with no low-end power. Unless your car is considered a drag-only car (ie. only driven weekends, car shows, cruise nights, etc. and NOT during the week), then I wouldn't recommend anything above a 228/232 112 LSA or similar. Good luck either way.

chae

iTrader: (8)

Big cams sell because everyone wants to churn out big numbers. Perhaps this is an ego thing. I've personally talked to a few people that have switched from a "Magic Stick 3" down to a "G5X1." They had their reasons for doing it (many are covered in this thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=683617).

In the end I personally think it isn't worth it to get a huge cam unless the car sees 80% or greater track duty (not daily driven) or unless you need to compensate for something lacking somewhere else...









Just kidding

You put down great numbers and as long as you're happy with the car that's all that matters. I just try to put my $0.02 to help the choose a streetable combo.

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

It seems my graph got skipped over in all of the bickering earlier... I want to know where the Vindicator LOST power against our VRX3 ANYWHERE in the RPM range.... Saying a "big cam" is a bad thing should only hold true to POORLY DESIGNED "Big Cams".... I have several 40 yr old men driving Vettes with Vindicators in them and they couldnt be happier... Ive also got 19 yr olds with 98 SS that have VRX 2s/3s/ and 4s in them and they are happy. I believe it is a personal choice, but to continually say big cams are "bad" is a little out of the park...


Again, where did the big cam lose to the lil cam

Vindicator-240/244 112+4
VRX3-226/228 114+4

Both 02 Z06s with the same modifications with the exception of the camshaft....


BTW, if I havent said this to the original poster, congrats on your #s... Im glad YOU are happy with YOUR purchase

Josh@MASPORT

iTrader: (3)

haha, turbo cars have the earliest peak numbers of almost any car, especially with V8s. so thats not really an argument. if u put a turbo dyno graph next to a big cam dyno, the turbo car will make power WAY before the cammed car starts to, granted the turbo is the right size etc.
a quick example for the hell of it,
Erik peak horsepower/ torque rpm - 6800/5200
mine - 5100/4500
I start loosing power ar 5400 RPM!!!

we are not arguing that they dont make power, just that they have an extremely high powerband, please understand that.


AT EXACTLY 4000 RPM!!! hahahaha
jst kidding, ur example is dead right, but not all cams make power liek vengance, and we are talking about big cams in general.
its hard to argue with a cam that made 445RWHP on a cam only fbody, ya i remember that dyno thread!!!!
WELL anyways,

ERIK AND JOSH OUT!!
god i love forums

Phlip00WS6

iTrader: (7)

Then its simple, just buy a BIG vengeance cam and the argument is over. I dont know how many dynos I've seen of peoples cars making rediculous power from vengeance (from 3k-up) and they're not all tuned/installed by vengeance them selfs.

347fairless

Congrats to the numbers of this original poster. I'm out of this thread too.

2000TransAmWS6

iTrader: (12)

i would hate to think that i just read 4 pages of bickering and missed it...

what are the specs on the Vindicator II? 113LSA, what else?

chae

iTrader: (8)

Straight from their website.

chae

iTrader: (8)

I'd like to see the comparison to a 228/232 .612"/.600" 112 LSA. The VRX3 is only a 226/228 .585"/.588" 114 LSA. I think there would be more of a difference down low, but maybe I am wrong.

Anyways I've heard things about these dyno numbers from Vengeance and there seems to be some controversy as to their legitimacy. Not saying anything, just do your research before believing all the numbers/hype that you see/hear on this site. Good luck everyone.

mudflap1989

iTrader: (4)

Wrong specs, those are the specs for the vindicator I. The vindicator II is on a 113 (I'm sure about this) and I'm 95% sure that it is only +2.

chae

iTrader: (8)

Guess it's time for them to update their website then

ERIK@MASPORT

iTrader: (32)

Hey guys, I am going to leave this alone too, I was just trying to help...I agree, to each his own, and I respect everyones thoughts and input, even it is was negative and directed towards me lol...

I just wanted to add that I did not realize that the vindicators have advance ground into them...I guess it is my fault for not checking the site...

When you add advance in a cam, it will improve power down low..for instance, a 228/232 on a 114 will have a slightly higher power band than say a 228/232 on a 112+4...

Maybe that is why the Vindicator cams have more "oomph" down low than its competitors larger cams...

Like I said the first post, congrats on the numbers...I am going to vacation!
PEACE!
Erik

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

So let me get this straight... We are discussing how larger camshafts dont have the bottom end that smaller camshafts do and you want me to compare a larger 228/232 to put things on a level playing fieldinstead of a smaller 226/228??? That makes no sense at all.....

Not sure where the "controversy" is on our dyno #s, as our packages have been duplicated, if not bettered all across the country..... Do some research on the TRACK times our packages are producing before making comments like you have... We have cam only cars trapping over 121mph in 3400lb cars and heads/cam cars trapping in the 130s...

Goodluck with your "Street Sweeper" cam.. I heard ole 5'3" named that after a shotgun from back in the day... I guess he has plenty of time to think in his one bay garage he calls a shop... LMFAO!!!!!