TFS Heads/Shmedium Cam results
03-14-2008, 01:38 AM
#1
TFS Heads/Shmedium Cam results A slightly hodgepodge combo (we put it only because plug threads were beat in one of stock castings plug holes) but made exactly where I thought she would given how tame a setup
85k mile untouched shortblock
stock pulley
stock waterpump
all belts no dyno trick crap
Pacesetter headers
TFS cast heads with a couple tweaks (still untouched ports/chambers)
stock head gaskets
stock rockers
original lifters
one of our shmedium cams (228/.600 lift intake lobe)
threw my intake/tb/60 inj on it since customer has ls1 intake/stock inj
Before it made 325 with headers/lid/offroad y/catback. Made right at 448/414 lbs torque at 6300/4700 rpm, still climbing slightly. 450 would be a nice round number but I wasnt too worried about chasing it since its still leaving plenty on the table. Save that for someone else more concerned about the last drop :grin: Picked up right near 125 hp for H/C intake swap that idles at stock rpm (actual idles at 600 rpm just fine, not sure hw plugs would liek that though
)
This is on our Mustang dyno - for comparison the most ever put down on here by a H/C was 460/383 from a Z06 that had AFR225s, all the doodads, 90/90 on built 347 (obviously need some valve reliefs for those) Car made right near 500 & 421 tq on a dynojet. That curve didnt catch this torquey setup until 5800-6100 rpm if I remember though and was something like 35 ft lbs below it at 4000!
I was pleasently surprised, even though thats exactly what I figured it would make on paper, its nice to see it work as well as planned! Actual results>math results
85k mile untouched shortblock
stock pulley
stock waterpump
all belts no dyno trick crap
Pacesetter headers
TFS cast heads with a couple tweaks (still untouched ports/chambers)
stock head gaskets
stock rockers
original lifters
one of our shmedium cams (228/.600 lift intake lobe)
threw my intake/tb/60 inj on it since customer has ls1 intake/stock inj
Before it made 325 with headers/lid/offroad y/catback. Made right at 448/414 lbs torque at 6300/4700 rpm, still climbing slightly. 450 would be a nice round number but I wasnt too worried about chasing it since its still leaving plenty on the table. Save that for someone else more concerned about the last drop :grin: Picked up right near 125 hp for H/C intake swap that idles at stock rpm (actual idles at 600 rpm just fine, not sure hw plugs would liek that though
)This is on our Mustang dyno - for comparison the most ever put down on here by a H/C was 460/383 from a Z06 that had AFR225s, all the doodads, 90/90 on built 347 (obviously need some valve reliefs for those) Car made right near 500 & 421 tq on a dynojet. That curve didnt catch this torquey setup until 5800-6100 rpm if I remember though and was something like 35 ft lbs below it at 4000!
I was pleasently surprised, even though thats exactly what I figured it would make on paper, its nice to see it work as well as planned! Actual results>math results
03-14-2008, 10:11 AM
#6
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Kick ***, thos are the first real good numbers ive seen from the as cast (not to say that it hasnt been done, but not that ive seen) i was a little worried they were low on power from the 215's but it looks like they are very close in their potential!
03-14-2008, 10:48 AM
#7
"More" is the answer I give. Hell Ive had cars make 75 more on another dyno identical to ours. The Z06 was one example of a direct dynojet to our roller comparison, so that should be in the ballpark. You can lean on the cars alot harder on djet as well than you can on ours from experience to make more power in addition to that. This car was at 12.2 AF and 22-23 timing max if I remember correctly Trending Topics
03-14-2008, 11:42 AM
#11
Good heads, and good combination as well. More to be said about a good combination than any one good part for sure!
Some salty pockets in here lol. This coming from guy that would argue my dyno as a standard against silly things people claim for the last 3 years. Guess planets shifted and everything is all out of whack now huh?
Some salty pockets in here lol. This coming from guy that would argue my dyno as a standard against silly things people claim for the last 3 years. Guess planets shifted and everything is all out of whack now huh?
Last edited by GrannySShifting; 03-14-2008 at 12:09 PM.
03-14-2008, 11:43 AM
#12
Starting at .200"
Yup, they were horrible numbers. Doubt a flow bench fine. Doubt A-B testing fine too. Doubt the flowbench and dyno that was used to set up even YOUR car, seems pretty silly to me!
You cant argue when the heads were flowed on same bench/bore as every other head we sell, and dynoed on same dyno that weve used as a very good standard for yours and every other car in this area. I sell enough AFR/TFS/ETP/PRC heads regardless, and I personally own stock heads so Im sure not biased. Save the dumb comments for someone else, it at least makes sense when its coming from someone that owns "another" set of heads. Coming from you is even dumberer
Code:
ATVRacrs ET225s Int. 140/207/257/299/322 Ext. 106/160/197/218/230 These TFS Int. 133/203/256/289/310 Ext. 107/160/185/199/206
You cant argue when the heads were flowed on same bench/bore as every other head we sell, and dynoed on same dyno that weve used as a very good standard for yours and every other car in this area. I sell enough AFR/TFS/ETP/PRC heads regardless, and I personally own stock heads so Im sure not biased. Save the dumb comments for someone else, it at least makes sense when its coming from someone that owns "another" set of heads. Coming from you is even dumberer
Last edited by GrannySShifting; 03-14-2008 at 12:18 PM.
03-14-2008, 11:55 AM
#13
Good heads, and good combination as well. More to be said about a good combination than any one good part for sure!
Some salty pockets in here lol. This coming from guy that would argue my dyno as a standard against silly things people claim. Guess planets shifted and everything is all out of whack now huh?
Some salty pockets in here lol. This coming from guy that would argue my dyno as a standard against silly things people claim. Guess planets shifted and everything is all out of whack now huh?
I think you finally figured out that you can sell more parts with inflated dyno and head flow numbers.
So the as cast TFS flow as much as my ET 225's and Mamo's ported AFR's
Those are not the same numbers I heard from Alan.
Take it to the track and back the numbers up.
Nothings changed, maybe thats the problem.
03-14-2008, 12:46 PM
#14
Unless Alan charged me and gave me false info, the numbers are as above. Looks a little worse than an ET head, but pretty damn good considering! Ill call Alan and ask if he gave me false info, doubt it as he doesnt give two flying craps about LS1 stuff being a big Pontiac guy. I have his handwriting clearly labled sitting here in front of me. So your either calling Alan a liar, or your calling yourself a hypocrite because you now hold no value in the dyno/flowbench that we modeled every car in Glen Burnie off of including yours.
Your remarks are retarded, those who want to sell more parts would push the product line that makes them the most profit, which by the way, would be AFR for us. LS1Tech needs a droolin smiley. I dont push parts, dont need to because I can make decent parts work pretty damn well. If you recall a while back, we took ETPs off your car and put another 225 head on and it lost like 30 some hp, I had another cam ground and and it picked 20-25 back up or so. Back then I knew some things, and now I just use the tire chuck and inflate my dyno Back then you used to warn people of some over inflated dynos around here because you saw the results on my dyno, and next youll be using that dyno saying its the truth I guess!
If you want we can pull the car again sometime, and first make a pull with another customers car to make sure results are repeatable. You can pull apart see the intake ports easily and ID heads. $1000 says it is what it is. If you want to question the bottom end, $2000 and the heads will come off. I have documented facts, you have dumb comments. My cash is on facts, whether you like them or not matters none to me or anyone else. Done with this arguement, because there is no more arguement. Everyone agree?
Your remarks are retarded, those who want to sell more parts would push the product line that makes them the most profit, which by the way, would be AFR for us. LS1Tech needs a droolin smiley. I dont push parts, dont need to because I can make decent parts work pretty damn well. If you recall a while back, we took ETPs off your car and put another 225 head on and it lost like 30 some hp, I had another cam ground and and it picked 20-25 back up or so. Back then I knew some things, and now I just use the tire chuck and inflate my dyno
Back then you used to warn people of some over inflated dynos around here because you saw the results on my dyno, and next youll be using that dyno saying its the truth I guess!If you want we can pull the car again sometime, and first make a pull with another customers car to make sure results are repeatable. You can pull apart see the intake ports easily and ID heads. $1000 says it is what it is. If you want to question the bottom end, $2000 and the heads will come off. I have documented facts, you have dumb comments. My cash is on facts, whether you like them or not matters none to me or anyone else. Done with this arguement, because there is no more arguement. Everyone agree?
Last edited by GrannySShifting; 03-14-2008 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Pockets full of salt
03-14-2008, 01:17 PM
#15
Post the lift numbers next to the flow numbers, what I saw was the heads were DONE @ 315 and they flipped pretty early.
Holy **** you picked the magic cam! Thats what it is.
Why is there salt in my pockets? I just call em how I see em.
Maybe you need to recalibrate your dyno AGAIN. or take it to the track and back up your 450hp number ... should go in the 10's easy with that power on your dyno.
Guys have been racing for MANY years before there were dyno's I wont be dynoing my new set up. I'm taking it to the track, I'll do my testing there so get the FBC salt out of your pocket!
How about take that 3 grand you want to bet and build your car and we will race for cash.
Agree you have nothing for me and the arguement is over... clownshoes
Holy **** you picked the magic cam! Thats what it is.
Why is there salt in my pockets? I just call em how I see em.
Maybe you need to recalibrate your dyno AGAIN. or take it to the track and back up your 450hp number ... should go in the 10's easy with that power on your dyno.
Guys have been racing for MANY years before there were dyno's I wont be dynoing my new set up. I'm taking it to the track, I'll do my testing there so get the FBC salt out of your pocket!
How about take that 3 grand you want to bet and build your car and we will race for cash.
Agree you have nothing for me and the arguement is over... clownshoes
Last edited by ATVracr; 03-14-2008 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Kurtis Smith owjns u
03-14-2008, 02:00 PM
#16
Starting at .200"
Yup, they were horrible numbers. Doubt a flow bench fine. Doubt A-B testing fine too. Doubt the flowbench and dyno that was used to set up even YOUR car, seems pretty silly to me!
You cant argue when the heads were flowed on same bench/bore as every other head we sell, and dynoed on same dyno that weve used as a very good standard for yours and every other car in this area. I sell enough AFR/TFS/ETP/PRC heads regardless, and I personally own stock heads so Im sure not biased. Save the dumb comments for someone else, it at least makes sense when its coming from someone that owns "another" set of heads. Coming from you is even dumberer
Code:
ATVRacrs ET225s Int. 140/207/257/299/322 Ext. 106/160/197/218/230 These TFS Int. 133/203/256/289/310 Ext. 107/160/185/199/206
You cant argue when the heads were flowed on same bench/bore as every other head we sell, and dynoed on same dyno that weve used as a very good standard for yours and every other car in this area. I sell enough AFR/TFS/ETP/PRC heads regardless, and I personally own stock heads so Im sure not biased. Save the dumb comments for someone else, it at least makes sense when its coming from someone that owns "another" set of heads. Coming from you is even dumberer
You posted my ET numbers as the TFS numbers at first, thats why I called BS dumb ***.
Those numbers look more like it.
My PRC's flowed that good so whats your point?
And they are alot cheaper.
03-14-2008, 02:04 PM
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03-14-2008, 04:43 PM
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Starting at .200"
Yup, they were horrible numbers. Doubt a flow bench fine. Doubt A-B testing fine too. Doubt the flowbench and dyno that was used to set up even YOUR car, seems pretty silly to me!
You cant argue when the heads were flowed on same bench/bore as every other head we sell, and dynoed on same dyno that weve used as a very good standard for yours and every other car in this area. I sell enough AFR/TFS/ETP/PRC heads regardless, and I personally own stock heads so Im sure not biased. Save the dumb comments for someone else, it at least makes sense when its coming from someone that owns "another" set of heads. Coming from you is even dumberer
Code:
ATVRacrs ET225s Int. 140/207/257/299/322 Ext. 106/160/197/218/230 These TFS Int. 133/203/256/289/310 Ext. 107/160/185/199/206
You cant argue when the heads were flowed on same bench/bore as every other head we sell, and dynoed on same dyno that weve used as a very good standard for yours and every other car in this area. I sell enough AFR/TFS/ETP/PRC heads regardless, and I personally own stock heads so Im sure not biased. Save the dumb comments for someone else, it at least makes sense when its coming from someone that owns "another" set of heads. Coming from you is even dumberer
as casts TFS's
.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .625 .650
(I) 133 202 255 288 309 312 290
.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
(E) 107 160 185 198 205 210
as you can see compared to what we I have flowed on alan's superflow 600 bench those heads dont really flow that well, as you can tell PRC heads have kept up right with them, not saying they are a better head just stating facts. Those as casts TFS fall on there face at .600 lift and there exhaust ports couldnt support all your n20 carbon copy's you will be tryin to make, anyways us GB gys never boasted about our dyno numbers we always took it to the track and let the numbers speak for us
btw jeff what tranny and rear setup does this car have? I am betting it was through a 10 bolt ans 6 speed( I could be wrong though...)
03-14-2008, 05:10 PM
#20
Looks to me like the numbers you just posted are pretty damn good to .625 lift. My heads only flow 257 @.600 int 219 @ .600 exh. and I made 441/410 through a 12 bolt with 33 spline axles wtih 4.30 gears at both FUtrals dyno and thunder racing's dyno.
You guys get so caught up on flow numbers it pathetic. Numbers look nice to me, gives a little room for some minor touch ups to them to do very well. However, they need to get more in line with Darts as cast prices.
You guys get so caught up on flow numbers it pathetic. Numbers look nice to me, gives a little room for some minor touch ups to them to do very well. However, they need to get more in line with Darts as cast prices.