Boosted 346 w/ AFR 225's cracks 800 RWHP!
04-06-2008, 02:45 PM
#1
Boosted 346 w/ AFR 225's cracks 800 RWHP! Guys,
Just thought I would share some impressive results on behalf of Glenn Dillon (the owner of the car in question) who called me a few months ago questioning whether I thought that number was possible. He already had an impressive combination that was generating consistent results in the high 600's (RWHP) which obviously isn't too shabby for a 346 on pump gas. As Glenn shared with me at the time, any result with an "8" in front of it and he would be ecstatic. I told him that if we optimized everything I thought it was possible, but certainly not "probable". He knew it was a big undertaking knowing part of the challenge was the fact he wanted to retain the same blower (a D1SC which is on the small side for that type of power goal), and he wanted to try and keep the boost level the same (15-16 PSI) because he felt that was the most boost he could run reliably on pump gas....which I also agreed with. He said he wouldn't be horribly upset if we "only made 775", but made it clear he would feel alot better about the money he was about to spend if we nailed 800+....LOL
His original set-up was no slouch so we had our work cut out for us. A brief rundown of his former combination would consist of what Glenn describes as a "max effort" set of ported LS6 castings (done by a very reputable shop) that were fitted with oversize valves, a stock LS6 intake and a ported and epoxied OEM TB, a set of Kooks 1.75 long tubes, and since Glenn wanted to retain smooth stock like driving manners the cam was a bit conservative with 214 on the intake and 224 on the exhaust (around .570 lift) with a 114 LSA.
Lets talk about the new set-up and what we changed in search of trying to nail Glenn's somewhat lofty goals.
We swapped the ported 243 castings for a pair of AFR 225's (PN 1630)....Glenn also opted to have me do some light porting and optimization work to the heads knowing he couldn't afford to leave many stones unturned if he was serious about getting there. After the porting work I milled the heads slightly to match his stockers so the static CR remained the same as his former combo.
Next on the list was the cam....I couldn't get too aggressive here knowing Glenn also valued a more "refined" package so I had Comp grind us a custom cam (XER lobes) with 224 on the intake and 230 on the exhaust but in an effort to keep it street friendly and smooth I ground it on a slightly wider LSA to reduce some of the overlap the bigger lobes introduced (115 LSA). That fact coupled with the shorter seat timing of the XER lobes left us with idle and drivability that matched the original combination....mission accomplished there.
Any of you that have spent more than three days on this board could probably guess the next part to go....yep....lets ditch the LS6 intake set-up in favor of one of my ported 90mm FAST units. Contrary to popular opinion it does help a blower engine much the same as it helps an N/A combo to produce more power....especially one we were trying to move some serious air thru. I also provided Glenn with a ported LS2 TB to compliment the FAST.
Last on the list was the headers....as much as I don't like recommending things to people where they have to spend money twice, this was a situation where it was really warranted if Glenn was serious about trying to nail the 800 mark. He of course joked and reminded me how I liked to help him spend his money
, but he is also tech savvy and knew it was the right move. So the phone call to Kooks was made and he purchased a larger set of their headers with a 1.875 primary pipe.
Last on the list was something more aimed at reliability than actual HP improvement and that was the addition of a set of Yella Terra ultralite rockers (stock 1.7 ratio). The main benefit here is valve guide wear or the lack there of....the Yella Terras leave a very narrow and centered wipe pattern when set up properly and they will literally quadruple your expected service life of the softer bronze guides found in most performance cylinder heads. The stock rockers have a huge wipe pattern and side load the valves considerably. I also feel due to less flex and better geometry the upgraded rockers probably added 3-5 RWHP and that was a nice perk as well, but reliability and reduced guide wear are the larger reasons to purchase these.
So on to the final results posted below....needless to say Glenn was ecstatic and the car feels incredible (when he can get a little traction). What I really like is the fact there was zero loss in power anywhere, and as the RPM's climb and airflow starts to become more important, the curves just start parting ways and in grand fashion at the top end of the power curve. Note the boys at New England Dyno where Glenn tuned and dyno'ed both combo's didn't spend a whole lot of fuss to get to the results you see below. In fact Glenn is already talking about going back to see how much some additional time spent tuning may be worth, but for now he will just have to live with only 805 RWHP on pump gas (with methanol injection btw in both combo's). I don't know if that's a 346 record or not as I don't spend enough time in the forced induction section of the various message boards I visit, but I do know its damn impressive, especially with what I believe to be a large street blower, versus an all out race blower (like an F series) which could have made similar boost at much lower blower speeds (effectively not heating the charge as much and generating more power as a net result).
Congrats Glenn....enjoy the new combination!
Regards,
Tony
PS....Ignore the ASM Motorsports in the dyno gragh. That's there because I downloaded the dyno files Glenn sent me on my home PC. They are actual dyno tests (old combo and new combo) that were both conducted at New England Dyno in Massachusetts which I also mentioned above but wanted to clarify to avoid confusion.
PSS....Dont forget guys these are SAE corrected numbers....in fact notice the correction factor which was .98 (the uncorrected number btw was 825 RWHP which coincidentally would be the exact figure if we posted an STP correction factor).
Just thought I would share some impressive results on behalf of Glenn Dillon (the owner of the car in question) who called me a few months ago questioning whether I thought that number was possible. He already had an impressive combination that was generating consistent results in the high 600's (RWHP) which obviously isn't too shabby for a 346 on pump gas. As Glenn shared with me at the time, any result with an "8" in front of it and he would be ecstatic. I told him that if we optimized everything I thought it was possible, but certainly not "probable". He knew it was a big undertaking knowing part of the challenge was the fact he wanted to retain the same blower (a D1SC which is on the small side for that type of power goal), and he wanted to try and keep the boost level the same (15-16 PSI) because he felt that was the most boost he could run reliably on pump gas....which I also agreed with. He said he wouldn't be horribly upset if we "only made 775", but made it clear he would feel alot better about the money he was about to spend if we nailed 800+....LOL
His original set-up was no slouch so we had our work cut out for us. A brief rundown of his former combination would consist of what Glenn describes as a "max effort" set of ported LS6 castings (done by a very reputable shop) that were fitted with oversize valves, a stock LS6 intake and a ported and epoxied OEM TB, a set of Kooks 1.75 long tubes, and since Glenn wanted to retain smooth stock like driving manners the cam was a bit conservative with 214 on the intake and 224 on the exhaust (around .570 lift) with a 114 LSA.
Lets talk about the new set-up and what we changed in search of trying to nail Glenn's somewhat lofty goals.
We swapped the ported 243 castings for a pair of AFR 225's (PN 1630)....Glenn also opted to have me do some light porting and optimization work to the heads knowing he couldn't afford to leave many stones unturned if he was serious about getting there. After the porting work I milled the heads slightly to match his stockers so the static CR remained the same as his former combo.
Next on the list was the cam....I couldn't get too aggressive here knowing Glenn also valued a more "refined" package so I had Comp grind us a custom cam (XER lobes) with 224 on the intake and 230 on the exhaust but in an effort to keep it street friendly and smooth I ground it on a slightly wider LSA to reduce some of the overlap the bigger lobes introduced (115 LSA). That fact coupled with the shorter seat timing of the XER lobes left us with idle and drivability that matched the original combination....mission accomplished there.
Any of you that have spent more than three days on this board could probably guess the next part to go....yep....lets ditch the LS6 intake set-up in favor of one of my ported 90mm FAST units. Contrary to popular opinion it does help a blower engine much the same as it helps an N/A combo to produce more power....especially one we were trying to move some serious air thru. I also provided Glenn with a ported LS2 TB to compliment the FAST.
Last on the list was the headers....as much as I don't like recommending things to people where they have to spend money twice, this was a situation where it was really warranted if Glenn was serious about trying to nail the 800 mark. He of course joked and reminded me how I liked to help him spend his money
, but he is also tech savvy and knew it was the right move. So the phone call to Kooks was made and he purchased a larger set of their headers with a 1.875 primary pipe.Last on the list was something more aimed at reliability than actual HP improvement and that was the addition of a set of Yella Terra ultralite rockers (stock 1.7 ratio). The main benefit here is valve guide wear or the lack there of....the Yella Terras leave a very narrow and centered wipe pattern when set up properly and they will literally quadruple your expected service life of the softer bronze guides found in most performance cylinder heads. The stock rockers have a huge wipe pattern and side load the valves considerably. I also feel due to less flex and better geometry the upgraded rockers probably added 3-5 RWHP and that was a nice perk as well, but reliability and reduced guide wear are the larger reasons to purchase these.
So on to the final results posted below....needless to say Glenn was ecstatic and the car feels incredible (when he can get a little traction). What I really like is the fact there was zero loss in power anywhere, and as the RPM's climb and airflow starts to become more important, the curves just start parting ways and in grand fashion at the top end of the power curve. Note the boys at New England Dyno where Glenn tuned and dyno'ed both combo's didn't spend a whole lot of fuss to get to the results you see below. In fact Glenn is already talking about going back to see how much some additional time spent tuning may be worth, but for now he will just have to live with only 805 RWHP on pump gas (with methanol injection btw in both combo's). I don't know if that's a 346 record or not as I don't spend enough time in the forced induction section of the various message boards I visit, but I do know its damn impressive, especially with what I believe to be a large street blower, versus an all out race blower (like an F series) which could have made similar boost at much lower blower speeds (effectively not heating the charge as much and generating more power as a net result).
Congrats Glenn....enjoy the new combination!
Regards,
Tony
PS....Ignore the ASM Motorsports in the dyno gragh. That's there because I downloaded the dyno files Glenn sent me on my home PC. They are actual dyno tests (old combo and new combo) that were both conducted at New England Dyno in Massachusetts which I also mentioned above but wanted to clarify to avoid confusion.
PSS....Dont forget guys these are SAE corrected numbers....in fact notice the correction factor which was .98 (the uncorrected number btw was 825 RWHP which coincidentally would be the exact figure if we posted an STP correction factor).
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 04-06-2008 at 06:55 PM.
04-06-2008, 03:35 PM
#4
Cool. I knew Glenn wouldn't stay NA for long. The rush of power is tooooo intoxicating. 
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
04-06-2008, 06:39 PM
#6
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Well Tony, you never cease to amaze. I think everyone here gets more and more impressed every time you take on a challange. You always succeed, again way to go Tony Mamo.
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04-07-2008, 07:52 AM
#11
Excellent work Tony! Nice to know those late night coffee runs are being put to good use, hopefully you are catching up on your work load. 
Those AFR heads never cease to amaze me. 
Those AFR heads never cease to amaze me. 
04-13-2008, 01:16 PM
#15
It works fine (obviously looking at the results!)....but a large bore motor takes even better advantage of it.
What you have to remember to do is run the proper large bore gasket on the small bore engine....anything over a gasket bore of 4.125 would work well. Glenn's gasket is 4.160 if I recall. Whats important is the gasket not overhang the chamber and in this case the chamber is about 4.100 across.
Tony
What you have to remember to do is run the proper large bore gasket on the small bore engine....anything over a gasket bore of 4.125 would work well. Glenn's gasket is 4.160 if I recall. Whats important is the gasket not overhang the chamber and in this case the chamber is about 4.100 across.
Tony
