Why the ms3 is no good for the street!
I'll go ahead and add my penny's worth.
I'm glad to see some people finally talking about 1000-2500 rpm range, since that is where most street *driving* takes place. I don't know all the specific numbers, but i don't think dyno graphs will really be helpful for what's left of this discussion.
The main question that springs to my mind is, does the MS3 make more or less low end torque than stock? If it's more, than street manners should be improved, and the "no good for street" argument falls apart, but if less, which I'm assuming it is, then this would be a valid point.
...but dyno's don't seem to go below 2500rpms so we'll probably never know the answer to that.
I'm glad to see some people finally talking about 1000-2500 rpm range, since that is where most street *driving* takes place. I don't know all the specific numbers, but i don't think dyno graphs will really be helpful for what's left of this discussion.
The main question that springs to my mind is, does the MS3 make more or less low end torque than stock? If it's more, than street manners should be improved, and the "no good for street" argument falls apart, but if less, which I'm assuming it is, then this would be a valid point.
...but dyno's don't seem to go below 2500rpms so we'll probably never know the answer to that.
You can make 900 hp in a 427 CID LSX, which would be 2.10 hp per cubic inch, but it will be at close to or over 9,000 rpm N/A.
You can make 900 hp with a 600" motor and it would be 1.5 hp per cubic inch, but some where around 6,300-6,500, and motors even bigger like 706 will do it much lower. You can also make 2.10 hp from a 600" motor (1260 hp) Which is better? I'd have to say the bigger motor, since it makes more total power.
If we talk hp per cubic we can look at top fuel which is over around 7,500 hp with 500 cubic inches which would be 15 hp per cubic inch, which would be comparable to your 346 LSX making 5,190 hp, good luck making that
My single and only point was, the smaller the motor the quicker you will reach it's limit unless it has boost. We compared a BBC to an LSX because that's what I am building. The point is I could have built an LSX but it wouldn't make the power I wanted without being a high dollar, very high rpm motor, with a 600" or more I can make the power I want and do it at no more than 6,500 rpm.
You can make 900 hp in a 427 CID LSX, which would be 2.10 hp per cubic inch, but it will be at close to or over 9,000 rpm N/A.
You can make 900 hp with a 600" motor and it would be 1.5 hp per cubic inch, but some where around 6,300-6,500, and motors even bigger like 706 will do it much lower. You can also make 2.10 hp from a 600" motor (1260 hp) Which is better? I'd have to say the bigger motor, since it makes more total power.
If we talk hp per cubic we can look at top fuel which is over around 7,500 hp with 500 cubic inches which would be 15 hp per cubic inch, which would be comparable to your 346 LSX making 5,190 hp, good luck making that
You can make 900 hp in a 427 CID LSX, which would be 2.10 hp per cubic inch, but it will be at close to or over 9,000 rpm N/A.
You can make 900 hp with a 600" motor and it would be 1.5 hp per cubic inch, but some where around 6,300-6,500, and motors even bigger like 706 will do it much lower. You can also make 2.10 hp from a 600" motor (1260 hp) Which is better? I'd have to say the bigger motor, since it makes more total power.
If we talk hp per cubic we can look at top fuel which is over around 7,500 hp with 500 cubic inches which would be 15 hp per cubic inch, which would be comparable to your 346 LSX making 5,190 hp, good luck making that
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
But for the sake of driving a street car, which are what ALL of these motors are derived from, the LSX has already surpassed that golden age of BBC setups. (At least from factory) 10 years from now we will see GM surpass everything ever built from any American motor company w/ the LSX derived motors. They will most likely continue to be small blocks.
But for the sake of driving a street car, which are what ALL of these motors are derived from, the LSX has already surpassed that golden age of BBC setups. (At least from factory) 10 years from now we will see GM surpass everything ever built from any American motor company w/ the LSX derived motors. They will most likely continue to be small blocks.
I'd love for GM to come out with a new LSX Big Block. LSX is great but unless you add boost you just can't make big power without revving it a good amount.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
I'll go ahead and add my penny's worth.
I'm glad to see some people finally talking about 1000-2500 rpm range, since that is where most street *driving* takes place. I don't know all the specific numbers, but i don't think dyno graphs will really be helpful for what's left of this discussion.
The main question that springs to my mind is, does the MS3 make more or less low end torque than stock? If it's more, than street manners should be improved, and the "no good for street" argument falls apart, but if less, which I'm assuming it is, then this would be a valid point.
...but dyno's don't seem to go below 2500rpms so we'll probably never know the answer to that.
I'm glad to see some people finally talking about 1000-2500 rpm range, since that is where most street *driving* takes place. I don't know all the specific numbers, but i don't think dyno graphs will really be helpful for what's left of this discussion.
The main question that springs to my mind is, does the MS3 make more or less low end torque than stock? If it's more, than street manners should be improved, and the "no good for street" argument falls apart, but if less, which I'm assuming it is, then this would be a valid point.
...but dyno's don't seem to go below 2500rpms so we'll probably never know the answer to that.
this arguments is totally useless, much like trying to argue what qualify's as a race car.
First of all it will be a 9 second car, and you actually have to finish your car to come race me. I have an old school 350 small block with a 10 inch tire that will take you down no problem oh yea it is 3400 pounds too. So just let me know when you get your car done. You can pick the car you want
and your second paragraph you have already said that before, i think maybe 3 times in this thread alone. no need to argue with me, it is my opinion and other peoples as well. Dont cheat and go fast with your LSx instead of going to a BBC.
and your second paragraph you have already said that before, i think maybe 3 times in this thread alone. no need to argue with me, it is my opinion and other peoples as well. Dont cheat and go fast with your LSx instead of going to a BBC.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 160
Likes: 7
From: Michigan
Its really personal preference, any v8 with a large cam will have more low end than a pukey 4 banger car. So streetable in that sense is kinda thrown out the window.
When I'm just cruising on the street, I hate to rev and love to short-shift. Its a different feeling when you short-shift, goose the gas, and let torque carry you away. I love it.
I've thought about using some smaller runner heads to get some more low end and a small turbo to pull out on top. eh?
When I'm just cruising on the street, I hate to rev and love to short-shift. Its a different feeling when you short-shift, goose the gas, and let torque carry you away. I love it.
I've thought about using some smaller runner heads to get some more low end and a small turbo to pull out on top. eh?
we're going to famoso this friday, saturday and sunday, to take our other old school SBC nova, looking to go 9.50's on motor. If anyone is going to that event look for the primer yellow nova and say hi. 
ok i didn't read the whole thread since it is 7 pgs long and just seen a link somewhere else.. but what happens when you put a 59cc head on top of that big ms3 or ms4? i'm thinking thats one of the best combos i've seen here lately... yes its probably not as strong as a smaller cam down low... but what happens when you put those to cars against eachother on the freeway or at the track? doesn't the bigger cammed car seem to win 9 times out of 10?
ok i didn't read the whole thread since it is 7 pgs long and just seen a link somewhere else.. but what happens when you put a 59cc head on top of that big ms3 or ms4? i'm thinking thats one of the best combos i've seen here lately... yes its probably not as strong as a smaller cam down low... but what happens when you put those to cars against eachother on the freeway or at the track? doesn't the bigger cammed car seem to win 9 times out of 10?
The point is, smaller cams drive nicer and bring torque on sooner which makes them feel better for all around daily driving.
Of course the MS4 will **** on a 224 cam, noone's arguing that
If everyone is just talking about "just driving around" it's not going to make a difference when you're at a 2,000 rpm cruise. Low end torque is great for towing, but any LSX car after you get on the gas will never see anything below 4,000 rpm even a stock motor.
For the people that say they don't like to down shift out of 6th or 4th gear in autos you're full of it because no cam is going to pull hard enough to make a quick pass when you're down at 1,700-2,000 rpm.
If you were going to speed up to pass or accelerate hard you'd change the gear 99% of the time anyways.
Cams in the MS3 range also are going to have more gear and stall (assuming it is auto) which will also compensate for any power loss below 4k. If they have a stock stall or stock gear they will obviously have issues, but as the cam is listed it requires more gear and stall to operate correctly.
Back and forth for who likes it and who doesn't the MS3 is still a great proven cam
For the people that say they don't like to down shift out of 6th or 4th gear in autos you're full of it because no cam is going to pull hard enough to make a quick pass when you're down at 1,700-2,000 rpm.
If you were going to speed up to pass or accelerate hard you'd change the gear 99% of the time anyways.
Cams in the MS3 range also are going to have more gear and stall (assuming it is auto) which will also compensate for any power loss below 4k. If they have a stock stall or stock gear they will obviously have issues, but as the cam is listed it requires more gear and stall to operate correctly.
Back and forth for who likes it and who doesn't the MS3 is still a great proven cam