Why the ms3 is no good for the street!
I'm not the one bitching about the cam, last time I checked I wasn't the one crying this cam is so horrible. Obviously you don't know what a big cam is if you think 237@.050 is some kind of pro stock derived cam profile - HAHA.
If you can comprehend this high level of mathematics called "averaging", a stock cam 200@.050 duration and a race cam profile, we'll say 290@.050, you'd notice that 237*.050 isn't even 50% of a full race cam.
Go back to reading hotrod and watching the speed channel poser *** tech guru.
I'll be at the LA Invasion Monday Memorial day at Fontana, look forward to meeting some people that don't have their heads up their asses
I'll just point out one problem with your logic: if you were trying to make a stock headed 346ci LS1 go fast, you'd use a 290 duration cam?
Btw: what has your car ever ran? I hear you talking about your friend's cars enough but I never see yours.
Last edited by 02NBMWS6; May 12, 2008 at 05:55 PM.
Don't get your feelings hurt man. no need to start calling names. I'm no poser, we can just agree to disagree
I'll just point out one problem with your logic: if you were trying to make a stock headed 346ci LS1 go fast, you'd use a 290 duration cam?
Btw: what has your car ever ran? I hear you talking about your friend's cars enough but I never see yours.
I'll just point out one problem with your logic: if you were trying to make a stock headed 346ci LS1 go fast, you'd use a 290 duration cam?
Btw: what has your car ever ran? I hear you talking about your friend's cars enough but I never see yours.
Problem with my logic? Why would I put a 290@.050 cam in a stock motor to start with. I said in terms of the stock cam compared to all out race cams with the MS3 having 237* duration it isn't that big.
My street / strip car went 10.30 N/A and 9's on the spray with a 377 SBC at LACR. I built it in my garage, my Camaro doesn't run I'm building a 25.2 tube frame 4 link setup and going BBC.
Problem with my logic? Why would I put a 290@.050 cam in a stock motor to start with. I said in terms of the stock cam compared to all out race cams with the MS3 having 237* duration it isn't that big.
My street / strip car went 10.30 N/A and 9's on the spray with a 377 SBC at LACR. I built it in my garage, my Camaro doesn't run I'm building a 25.2 tube frame 4 link setup and going BBC.
My street / strip car went 10.30 N/A and 9's on the spray with a 377 SBC at LACR. I built it in my garage, my Camaro doesn't run I'm building a 25.2 tube frame 4 link setup and going BBC.
Can we agree that the MS3 is "big" for a street car with a stock cubed motor??
you are a straight ******* idiot... if you actually were able to comprehend what you are reading you would understand why this post was made.
First like I have said I think 3 times in this damn thread.... I am not complaining about the MS3.... Mine drives great on the street because of a great tune and I love driving it on the street....
Second.... go stick a 260+ duration cam or even mid to high 250's in a 346 with stock style heads and see what it does.... oh wait..? lol
We are not talking big cube small blocks with carbs nor big blocks.... this is a 346ci ls1 stock headed motor, a pretty big difference
I have done those motors and yes I have a 270+ cam in one of those motors.... but once again we are not talking about those
it is a 346 ci ls1 and for a daily driver a cam with less duration would work BETTER for all around driving and that is the point of this thread and to help people learn.
I will not be at LA invasion but if you ever in the norcal area(sac) give me a call and we will shoot the **** and try to help you realize what my post is about... bring a car too
thanks
First like I have said I think 3 times in this damn thread.... I am not complaining about the MS3.... Mine drives great on the street because of a great tune and I love driving it on the street....
Second.... go stick a 260+ duration cam or even mid to high 250's in a 346 with stock style heads and see what it does.... oh wait..? lol
We are not talking big cube small blocks with carbs nor big blocks.... this is a 346ci ls1 stock headed motor, a pretty big difference
I have done those motors and yes I have a 270+ cam in one of those motors.... but once again we are not talking about those
it is a 346 ci ls1 and for a daily driver a cam with less duration would work BETTER for all around driving and that is the point of this thread and to help people learn.
I will not be at LA invasion but if you ever in the norcal area(sac) give me a call and we will shoot the **** and try to help you realize what my post is about... bring a car too
thanks
Ok still, what would be an "all out race cam" then? Prob not much bigger then the MS3 for stock cubes. This discussion was about stock cubes and street cars, not race cars. "no good for the street"
Can we agree that the MS3 is "big" for a street car with a stock cubed motor??
Can we agree that the MS3 is "big" for a street car with a stock cubed motor??
Is it big compared to race cams, no.
A 346 all out motor would rev at least to the 9k range.
The MS3 with it's power range isn't ideal for a stock motor setup, that's why the torque is low, if you had some compression and a better intake and heads, the low end numbers wouldn't lack as bad. But with the correct tuning it is small enough to still idle and drive well even at low rpm.
WORST THREAD EVER!!!!!! PERIOD.
With that being said i will add my 2cents. For a true Daily driver the ms3 is too big for 75% of people, there are still 10% that would probably love it, and 15% that could bare with it. Thats just the truth.
Now my real world experience, i have had a stock ls1. We all know that didnt last long. then a 228 cam, which made decent power and would have been a great DD cam but still lacked the power i was looking for. Then i went to the ms3. I really liked that cam especially on the street, maybe it lost a little torque down low but who doesnt have a problem hooking on the street anyway? granted in order to take advantage of the ms3 i had 4.11's and a big stall. Not a DD in my mind at all but i can definitely still see 10% that would find that acceptable. Ran 10.7s with the ms3 as well cam only.
Now everyone should realize that how a cammed car drives is ALL in the tune. my ms3 car was tuned by myself via HPT and LC1 wideband and it drove like stock, i mean it loped but was 100% perfect drivability. I have also seen cars with 228 cams that werent tuned well and actually drove horrible, stalling ect. ITS ALL IN THE TUNE
I personally dont think the ms3 cam is a all out race cam by any means, infact it is realy designed along with the t rex to be stock headed well probably not as much as the trex was. An all out race hydraulic cam for a 346 would probably be in the 250's at least.
Obviously everyone is going to have a different oppinion on what a DD cam is and what a Street cam is and what a race cam is. But properly tuned the ms3 is 100% streetable.
With that being said i will add my 2cents. For a true Daily driver the ms3 is too big for 75% of people, there are still 10% that would probably love it, and 15% that could bare with it. Thats just the truth.
Now my real world experience, i have had a stock ls1. We all know that didnt last long. then a 228 cam, which made decent power and would have been a great DD cam but still lacked the power i was looking for. Then i went to the ms3. I really liked that cam especially on the street, maybe it lost a little torque down low but who doesnt have a problem hooking on the street anyway? granted in order to take advantage of the ms3 i had 4.11's and a big stall. Not a DD in my mind at all but i can definitely still see 10% that would find that acceptable. Ran 10.7s with the ms3 as well cam only.
Now everyone should realize that how a cammed car drives is ALL in the tune. my ms3 car was tuned by myself via HPT and LC1 wideband and it drove like stock, i mean it loped but was 100% perfect drivability. I have also seen cars with 228 cams that werent tuned well and actually drove horrible, stalling ect. ITS ALL IN THE TUNE
I personally dont think the ms3 cam is a all out race cam by any means, infact it is realy designed along with the t rex to be stock headed well probably not as much as the trex was. An all out race hydraulic cam for a 346 would probably be in the 250's at least.
Obviously everyone is going to have a different oppinion on what a DD cam is and what a Street cam is and what a race cam is. But properly tuned the ms3 is 100% streetable.
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Weird how it ran 10.48 with a 1.6 sixty foot and an untuned 100 shot with 15% converter slippage? If you get a car together please come up to norcal and i would love to show you my tail lights at the track...
It is set up for a 175 shot right now and ready to go as soon as i get home from school. Make sure to let me know when your coming up.
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once again im not talking about drive ability... mine drives like stock too that is not the point for the last time. it is how late the power comes on for a mid range street car...
once again it is not about drive ability my MS3 car drives like stock on the street
once again it is not about drive ability my MS3 car drives like stock on the street
Just give up cam and let this thread die.
understandably so, but i mean come on we all know how quick ls1's rev. Within a fraction of a second any cam will be pretty much in its power range. I do get the fact that it does have slightly less torque until a certain point. Every cam has its place for each individual.
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I like this thread though so it is cool.
everybody has their own opinion and this was my opinion just thought i would share how i feel and will always feel about the situation
everybody has their own opinion and this was my opinion just thought i would share how i feel and will always feel about the situation
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it weighs 3370 before the nitrous kit and now prolly close to 3400... i could do way more but i dont want to tear the car apart... this is with me in it and i weigh 150
Weird how it ran 10.48 with a 1.6 sixty foot and an untuned 100 shot with 15% converter slippage? If you get a car together please come up to norcal and i would love to show you my tail lights at the track...
It is set up for a 175 shot right now and ready to go as soon as i get home from school. Make sure to let me know when your coming up.
It is set up for a 175 shot right now and ready to go as soon as i get home from school. Make sure to let me know when your coming up.
As far as the power coming in late for a street car or not what did you expect when you go to 237* of duration vs. a stock cam? The stock cam doesn't hit it's torque peak till 4,000. More you add duration higher the power band moves up, the company says performance cam with rough idle, needs tuning, 2,300-6,800 rpm range peaks around 6,400, it's pretty much spelled out on the web site. Don't see why anyone would be surprised in a low rpm torque loss.
Last edited by RAGENZ28; May 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM.