Why the ms3 is no good for the street!
i have a MS3, its all in the tune. If your tune sucks so will driving with this cam but if your tuner knows what he/she is doing your vehicle will not "buck/surge". ITS ALL IN THE TUNE
Yeah, but I think your power is off down low compared to others of similar size cams. IIRC, my T-Rex made about 300rwtq at 3000RPMS on a Mustang Dyno through 4.56s and a 9" with locker. You are only at about 250. I have sean other MS4s make similar power down low to mine.
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I have an ms3, never understood the arguement between big cams and small cams. My yank 4000 ss gets me into my powerband right away and when shifting at 6800 only drops to 5800 between shifts staying right in the powerband of this cam, so I'll take the more peak power cam over the "more under the curve" cuz thats where my setup stays at wot. When I race someone with a smaller cam it is close for a little bit then I drive away proving more power is more power! As far as driveability it is a very fun car to drive at 25 mph or 125 mph!
I put in an MS3 in my silverado when i did the LS1 swap and I DD for a while atleast a month, I still drive it to work about once a week and its all I drive once I get off work or on the weekends. It really isn't that bad of a camshaft to drive everyday in. Gas mileage stayed pretty much the same as it did when I had a stock 5.3 in, I lost a couple mpg in the city but its probably just because I give it extra gas alot more than I did with the other motor. I love the sound of it too, it made driving fun again. I really have no experience with other camshafts other than the MS3, I have to say though if your heart is set on a huge camshaft then get it. I am sure that I would have regretted it if i would have gone with a smaller one. I wanted that nasty idle, and the extra rpms and even in a truck I dont need any more torque to climb hills even in 6th gear.
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I agree. I swapped my Ms3 for a patrick g custom grind and WOW what a huge F'N difference down low and mid range. My Ms3 on a 114 LSA had a total of 11* overlap and my new custom cam has 14* degrees of overlap. I told patrick that i wanted a cam that pulled like my MS3 up top, but I also wanted more low/mid range power & torque. The MS3 doesn't like stock compression and my DCR and BTDC were both off. Patrick G spec'd my custom and now my car runs alot harder and is more streetable and has a more useable power band. Thanks Patrick!!
heres my MS3 dyno. The car is my DD. I actually just drove it down to Myrtle beach and back a few weeks ago for a vacation...850 mile trip one way. Not a single problem....
all you people complaining about the ms3 being a bad street car cam because its "too big" dont have any experience with them and are just hating for no reason...
stock 241 heads, stock 3.42 10 bolt, stock ls6 intake manifold. ms3 on 112 lsa, hooker long tubes, ORY, texas speed rumbler and ported TB...ram HD clutch
411.5 rwhp, 381rwtq.
315rwtq by 2800rpms...
360rwhp by 4900rpms.....
and heres my dyno sheet from when I was just ported TB, and full exhaust. 351rwhp, 355rwtq.....
so wait, am I seeing this correctly??? Look and learn MS3 haters. Look at my dyno sheets. Stock cam vs MS3. My hp/tq cross a little over 5200rpms and look at the MS3....HP/tq cross at 5300rpms. The difference from the stock cam crossing at 5200rpms is 350rwtq/rwhp and the MS3 at 5300rpms is 375rwtq/rwhp....now figure that out.
3500rpms....340rwtq for bolt on car, 360rwtq for MS3 car. 240rwtq for bolt on car, 240rwtq for MS3.
also, at 2800rpms, BOTH cams have the same amount of HP and TQ. 315rwtq and about 170rwhp. Now what? The MS3 is too big and has no down low power??? well from what Im seeing with both cam's in my car....the down low power is the same with any bolt on stock cam car and the MS3 just pulls like a rapped ape up top......
The ms3 gains tq everywhere over a stock cam/ full bolt on car and HP is nearly the same until 4800rpms+. So, my question is this...
if you can DD a full bolt on car, why cant you DD a MS3 car when the power is nearly the same down low???
all you people complaining about the ms3 being a bad street car cam because its "too big" dont have any experience with them and are just hating for no reason...
stock 241 heads, stock 3.42 10 bolt, stock ls6 intake manifold. ms3 on 112 lsa, hooker long tubes, ORY, texas speed rumbler and ported TB...ram HD clutch
411.5 rwhp, 381rwtq.
315rwtq by 2800rpms...
360rwhp by 4900rpms.....
and heres my dyno sheet from when I was just ported TB, and full exhaust. 351rwhp, 355rwtq.....
so wait, am I seeing this correctly??? Look and learn MS3 haters. Look at my dyno sheets. Stock cam vs MS3. My hp/tq cross a little over 5200rpms and look at the MS3....HP/tq cross at 5300rpms. The difference from the stock cam crossing at 5200rpms is 350rwtq/rwhp and the MS3 at 5300rpms is 375rwtq/rwhp....now figure that out.
3500rpms....340rwtq for bolt on car, 360rwtq for MS3 car. 240rwtq for bolt on car, 240rwtq for MS3.
also, at 2800rpms, BOTH cams have the same amount of HP and TQ. 315rwtq and about 170rwhp. Now what? The MS3 is too big and has no down low power??? well from what Im seeing with both cam's in my car....the down low power is the same with any bolt on stock cam car and the MS3 just pulls like a rapped ape up top......
The ms3 gains tq everywhere over a stock cam/ full bolt on car and HP is nearly the same until 4800rpms+. So, my question is this...
if you can DD a full bolt on car, why cant you DD a MS3 car when the power is nearly the same down low???
Last edited by kidcamaro98; Aug 16, 2009 at 07:45 AM.
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no one cares dude... there are a lot better cams out there than the ms3 for a mostly street driven car. That is all this thread is saying. I absolutely love my ms3, look at my numbers they speak for themselves. phucking flyin. I could drive everywhere I wanted with the the cam, it is all in the tune...
But, 90% of the people who dont see the track very much would guaranteed rather have a smaller cam with more power down low and would like it more than the ms3 side of things. all tunes equal. Drive a smaller cam, the down low power makes it clear the difference between the small and big cams...
btw.. im the orginal poster so hate all you want. haha
But, 90% of the people who dont see the track very much would guaranteed rather have a smaller cam with more power down low and would like it more than the ms3 side of things. all tunes equal. Drive a smaller cam, the down low power makes it clear the difference between the small and big cams...
btw.. im the orginal poster so hate all you want. haha
Very good point. But the OP was really just confirming the truth about the description I believe. I've already been chewed out over this one, and they told me there was no surprise, nor was there any 'MS3' bashing. OP just wanted to show some not so surprising info for everyone about the MS3.
That being said, yes...low-end power is more ideal for DD, and smaller 22x cams offer this type of power and will have better characteristics for your 4th gear 50-70mph highway pulls in and out of traffic. Fortunately, these cars (LS1 powered vehicles) already have good characteristics for sissy/daily driving. There is no need to mod the car at all if you want a good DD car. So let's stop talking about droppin' heads and cams in 'DD' cars, with the goal of making the car "more" drivable. It's as drivable as it can get from the factory. So modding is not really there to make it 'more drivable' for the stop and go. Get real, we mod the **** out of these cars to do ONE thing. Go fast. So in my opinion, you'll lose drivability at some level for ANY cam swap change significant enough to add some good HP/Tq levels. My point, yes, the MS3 will sacrifice low-end, stop-and-go traffic power for the good stuff up top. BUT, if your complaining about or contemplating over whether or not to have the MS3 because of this 'flaw', then you shouldn't mod the motor in the first place. Leave it alone if you want a fast car that can drive good. Put some bolt-ons in place and a little 100 shot for your speed fix.
By the way Ragen, I'm not directing this post to you at all. This is a "general" dispersion of common sense that I hope all in this thread feels. Everyone should stop arguing at this point. It's not worth name calling. Nothing is.
That being said, yes...low-end power is more ideal for DD, and smaller 22x cams offer this type of power and will have better characteristics for your 4th gear 50-70mph highway pulls in and out of traffic. Fortunately, these cars (LS1 powered vehicles) already have good characteristics for sissy/daily driving. There is no need to mod the car at all if you want a good DD car. So let's stop talking about droppin' heads and cams in 'DD' cars, with the goal of making the car "more" drivable. It's as drivable as it can get from the factory. So modding is not really there to make it 'more drivable' for the stop and go. Get real, we mod the **** out of these cars to do ONE thing. Go fast. So in my opinion, you'll lose drivability at some level for ANY cam swap change significant enough to add some good HP/Tq levels. My point, yes, the MS3 will sacrifice low-end, stop-and-go traffic power for the good stuff up top. BUT, if your complaining about or contemplating over whether or not to have the MS3 because of this 'flaw', then you shouldn't mod the motor in the first place. Leave it alone if you want a fast car that can drive good. Put some bolt-ons in place and a little 100 shot for your speed fix.
By the way Ragen, I'm not directing this post to you at all. This is a "general" dispersion of common sense that I hope all in this thread feels. Everyone should stop arguing at this point. It's not worth name calling. Nothing is.
BTW-I am probably in that 10% that could DD a damn race car, but that's me. lol
