Why the ms3 is no good for the street!
Well then, I guess the MS3 is the only big cam out there that is a turd down low, so we should make a general statement that all big cams are weak down low and have no bottom end and make no torque.
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I know this isnt apples to apples since my car is an LS2, but my little 231/234 cam has done wonders for this car, and i wouldnt trade it for the world. This is on a dyna pack that supposedly reads like a mustang dyno...trapped 119 in 70* air in my GTO 
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However, based on what I've seen w/ this website as well as Digitalcorvettes.com, I'd say you'll be most satisfied w/ the MS3/MS4 setup w/ some ported heads, or at least the LS6 stockers. I've seen a few Z06's w/ cam only MS4's making upwards of 420whp, and right near 400wtq.
If you can't get the job done w/ 390+wtq, the it's safe to say your looking for power in the wrong avenue. Considering the fact that everyone should have at least 3.73's (and up to 4.10's) in the rear for such a cam...the loss of 15-25 ft/lbs tq w/ be totally unrecognizable to most anyone since your gears are so quick, unlike 3.42's and the such.
I'm done here.
How would the dd ability change wil a premium type of head like an afr 205? Does anyone have a graph? Wouldn't the smaller runners increase power throughout the entire curve? Interested in the answers because I love my 228/228 I'm running right now, but curious as to how it will perform with a larger cam if I change in the future.
So let's say it's safe to assume you'll be happier w/ a medium cam..(around 230 duration and high 500's in the lift) IF you use a cam only setup. Or even better, a reverse-split cam setup w/ I/E only for supporting mods.
However, based on what I've seen w/ this website as well as Digitalcorvettes.com, I'd say you'll be most satisfied w/ the MS3/MS4 setup w/ some ported heads, or at least the LS6 stockers. I've seen a few Z06's w/ cam only MS4's making upwards of 420whp, and right near 400wtq.
If you can't get the job done w/ 390+wtq, the it's safe to say your looking for power in the wrong avenue. Considering the fact that everyone should have at least 3.73's (and up to 4.10's) in the rear for such a cam...the loss of 15-25 ft/lbs tq w/ be totally unrecognizable to most anyone since your gears are so quick, unlike 3.42's and the such.
I'm done here.
However, based on what I've seen w/ this website as well as Digitalcorvettes.com, I'd say you'll be most satisfied w/ the MS3/MS4 setup w/ some ported heads, or at least the LS6 stockers. I've seen a few Z06's w/ cam only MS4's making upwards of 420whp, and right near 400wtq.
If you can't get the job done w/ 390+wtq, the it's safe to say your looking for power in the wrong avenue. Considering the fact that everyone should have at least 3.73's (and up to 4.10's) in the rear for such a cam...the loss of 15-25 ft/lbs tq w/ be totally unrecognizable to most anyone since your gears are so quick, unlike 3.42's and the such.
I'm done here.
What is so hard to understand about this thread? If you want to go fast, get a big cam and appropriate gears/stall, like the op did! If you want a nicer driver with more torque sooner in the rpm band, get a medium sized cam.
And I think he's getting the job done just fine running 10s NA cam only
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So let's say it's safe to assume you'll be happier w/ a medium cam..(around 230 duration and high 500's in the lift) IF you use a cam only setup. Or even better, a reverse-split cam setup w/ I/E only for supporting mods.
However, based on what I've seen w/ this website as well as Digitalcorvettes.com, I'd say you'll be most satisfied w/ the MS3/MS4 setup w/ some ported heads, or at least the LS6 stockers. I've seen a few Z06's w/ cam only MS4's making upwards of 420whp, and right near 400wtq.
If you can't get the job done w/ 390+wtq, the it's safe to say your looking for power in the wrong avenue. Considering the fact that everyone should have at least 3.73's (and up to 4.10's) in the rear for such a cam...the loss of 15-25 ft/lbs tq w/ be totally unrecognizable to most anyone since your gears are so quick, unlike 3.42's and the such.
I'm done here.
However, based on what I've seen w/ this website as well as Digitalcorvettes.com, I'd say you'll be most satisfied w/ the MS3/MS4 setup w/ some ported heads, or at least the LS6 stockers. I've seen a few Z06's w/ cam only MS4's making upwards of 420whp, and right near 400wtq.
If you can't get the job done w/ 390+wtq, the it's safe to say your looking for power in the wrong avenue. Considering the fact that everyone should have at least 3.73's (and up to 4.10's) in the rear for such a cam...the loss of 15-25 ft/lbs tq w/ be totally unrecognizable to most anyone since your gears are so quick, unlike 3.42's and the such.
I'm done here.
look at what my car runs... do you think i am complaining? lol
im just stating results and my opnion on what i have seen from my results no trying to make facts... lol
awesome
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A big cam is not a good DD cam but i guess he thinks its go big or go home
I see alot of talk that makes no sense. No power down low with big cams(MS3, etc)
What does it matter how much power it makes at 2500 or 3000? Think about it. I dont know of a scenario when you would want to call on full power at 2500 or 3000.
If you have an auto and stall then it will flash to the powerband you want as long as you have the right converter. If you have an M6 you need to select the proper gear.
Also you need the right gear. Its all in the combo. Theory has been around forever. You move the power range up you loose a little down low. Then you gear to compensate for what you lost down low.
Keep on thinking smaller is better on the street.
What does it matter how much power it makes at 2500 or 3000? Think about it. I dont know of a scenario when you would want to call on full power at 2500 or 3000.
If you have an auto and stall then it will flash to the powerband you want as long as you have the right converter. If you have an M6 you need to select the proper gear.
Also you need the right gear. Its all in the combo. Theory has been around forever. You move the power range up you loose a little down low. Then you gear to compensate for what you lost down low.
Keep on thinking smaller is better on the street.
I see alot of talk that makes no sense. No power down low with big cams(MS3, etc)
What does it matter how much power it makes at 2500 or 3000? Think about it. I dont know of a scenario when you would want to call on full power at 2500 or 3000.
If you have an auto and stall then it will flash to the powerband you want as long as you have the right converter. If you have an M6 you need to select the proper gear.
Also you need the right gear. Its all in the combo. Theory has been around forever. You move the power range up you loose a little down low. Then you gear to compensate for what you lost down low.
Keep on thinking smaller is better on the street.
What does it matter how much power it makes at 2500 or 3000? Think about it. I dont know of a scenario when you would want to call on full power at 2500 or 3000.
If you have an auto and stall then it will flash to the powerband you want as long as you have the right converter. If you have an M6 you need to select the proper gear.
Also you need the right gear. Its all in the combo. Theory has been around forever. You move the power range up you loose a little down low. Then you gear to compensate for what you lost down low.
Keep on thinking smaller is better on the street.
for a daily driver, is the answer...that is why you want torque down low...
ever been on a 600 and just gunned it from idle with the clutch out....takes forever to get in the pull rpms around 7K...
now jump on a zx14r and do the same thing and feel the stronger pull i.e. more tq down low...
kind of a rough example but i am sure you can get the point...
the bigger cams just are not as street friendly (dd friendly) as the smaller cams...
there is no magical cam bottom line...if you want more top end u have to give up bottom end....if you want more bottom end then you have to give up some top end...
Last edited by chrs1313; May 4, 2008 at 09:12 PM.
Again, I have no idea why you would even make a comment like this. It's personal preference and for some smaller is better for a daily driven street car. Some like a powerband up in the stratosphere with no torque at all down low.
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But I still think the MS3 would be able to defend itself a little better if the setup has a nice set of heads. Personally, I wouldn't ever consider that cam w/o some AFR's and 3.90's or better. But that's just me. I thought this thread was leaning towards slamming the MS3. My bad.
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ok. that's cool. So I wasn't on the right page w/ the point of the story. Sorry.
But I still think the MS3 would be able to defend itself a little better if the setup has a nice set of heads. Personally, I wouldn't ever consider that cam w/o some AFR's and 3.90's or better. But that's just me. I thought this thread was leaning towards slamming the MS3. My bad.
But I still think the MS3 would be able to defend itself a little better if the setup has a nice set of heads. Personally, I wouldn't ever consider that cam w/o some AFR's and 3.90's or better. But that's just me. I thought this thread was leaning towards slamming the MS3. My bad.
I have the MS3 cam and daily drive it. I love it. How much tq do you think it takes to get the car moving up to normal speeds. not much. Yes they pull hard up top but down low is not that bad either and i am still on stock gears.
Some of you guys just need to stay stock. The 600 comment was really moronic. Yes, I have ridden about every bike out there and I know exactly what you mean about nailing it down low. Again, why do you gun it down low? You wanting to feel a rush? You racing? Makes no sense.
I have street raced back in the day and agreed to kick'em off from a roll at a certain speed. I can see it now. Hey lets go from a 2,000rpm roll!
I guess I just would like to understand why the MS3 size cams are not good street cams. When I had mine I could slide it in 6th and cruise at 1100 rpms if I want, no fuss there.
I have street raced back in the day and agreed to kick'em off from a roll at a certain speed. I can see it now. Hey lets go from a 2,000rpm roll!
I guess I just would like to understand why the MS3 size cams are not good street cams. When I had mine I could slide it in 6th and cruise at 1100 rpms if I want, no fuss there.
I get a kick out of hearing the MS3 is a BIG cam. 237/242 @.050 .603"/.609 that makes peak torque at 4,800
Our 406 runs a 6,000 stall and makes peak power at 8,200 and we could rev it to 8,800
You tell everyone how great the part throttle is and how much torque it makes, then after the amazing acceleration in 1st gear you get your *** spanked by some MS3 cammed car passing you up and driving away from you and then you can say, well he has a really big RACE cam in his car
Our 406 runs a 6,000 stall and makes peak power at 8,200 and we could rev it to 8,800
You tell everyone how great the part throttle is and how much torque it makes, then after the amazing acceleration in 1st gear you get your *** spanked by some MS3 cammed car passing you up and driving away from you and then you can say, well he has a really big RACE cam in his car
On The Tree
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I get a kick out of hearing the MS3 is a BIG cam. 237/242 @.050 .603"/.609 that makes peak torque at 4,800
Our 406 runs a 6,000 stall and makes peak power at 8,200 and we could rev it to 8,800
You tell everyone how great the part throttle is and how much torque it makes, then after the amazing acceleration in 1st gear you get your *** spanked by some MS3 cammed car passing you up and driving away from you and then you can say, well he has a really big RACE cam in his car
Our 406 runs a 6,000 stall and makes peak power at 8,200 and we could rev it to 8,800
You tell everyone how great the part throttle is and how much torque it makes, then after the amazing acceleration in 1st gear you get your *** spanked by some MS3 cammed car passing you up and driving away from you and then you can say, well he has a really big RACE cam in his car
I get a kick out of hearing people talk about racing somebody from 2000 rpm when others talk about low end torque and how it's nice to have. Smaller cams that have grunt down low are nice for normal daily driving since you are not revving the **** out of it to get moving and for just having a nice torquey feel to it. Imagine cruising down the freeway at 75 mph in 6th gear and you want to accelerate a bit to put a pass on somebody. If you can't understand that concept of why some people prefer smaller cams for daily drivers but instead always relate it to racing then no explanation will ever make sense to you.
I get a kick out of hearing people talk about racing somebody from 2000 rpm when others talk about low end torque and how it's nice to have. Smaller cams that have grunt down low are nice for normal daily driving since you are not revving the **** out of it to get moving and for just having a nice torquey feel to it. Imagine cruising down the freeway at 75 mph in 6th gear and you want to accelerate a bit to put a pass on somebody. If you can't understand that concept of why some people prefer smaller cams for daily drivers but instead always relate it to racing then no explanation will ever make sense to you.
Big cams are better for racing, and small cams are better for LOW RPM crusing (DAILY DRIVING)
Can we all agree on that?