PPS2 heads and 228R dyno
PPS2 heads and 228R dyno Sorry for the size, but is the quickest host I can get at the moment. Was hoping for more power with full boltons. Dynoed 355/360 before with a Hotcam, LS6 intake, Macs with 3" duals, lid, and my personal ported TB and MAF ends. Since then I added the PPS2 5.3 heads, 228R, rollmaster, harden pushrods, SVO 30#, Walboro 340, SPEC S3, and ASP pulley went on.
I got the AFR on the 4th run to about 13.0 till 5K then upped it to about 13.3 to get a little more power up top. There was no knock and the timing was about 28.5* If you would like to see my edit file, you are more than welcome to point me in the right direction here. I feel like banging my head against the wall.
Don't get me wrong, it does feel like it pulls hard to 6500, but something is bottlenecking the HP somewhere. It was making decent power for a hotcam.
Here is a pic of my last dyno 3 months ago. AFR was about 12.7 for those runs, I didn't bother tweaking them since I knew I had heads on the way.
I got the AFR on the 4th run to about 13.0 till 5K then upped it to about 13.3 to get a little more power up top. There was no knock and the timing was about 28.5* If you would like to see my edit file, you are more than welcome to point me in the right direction here. I feel like banging my head against the wall.
Don't get me wrong, it does feel like it pulls hard to 6500, but something is bottlenecking the HP somewhere. It was making decent power for a hotcam.
Here is a pic of my last dyno 3 months ago. AFR was about 12.7 for those runs, I didn't bother tweaking them since I knew I had heads on the way.
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: bronx ny
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno Sorry to hear about your misfortune, it doesnt look like you can make anymore with the tune. what is the full specs on your cam, is 228r a 228 cam, your ex looks good with the duals. in your other post you said it dynoed good on the spray this would indicate your ex is flowing good and the problem n/a is on the intake side, nox will always make up for a poor flowing intake but not make up for poor exhaust, if you cant find any problem with the intake tract and if compression is good and blow by isnt a factor than remove the heads have them flowed with and without the intake, this will tell you if you have the proper cam for the heads. I hope I can help a little , maybe you can get more power out of it and stop pulling out your hair
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno TSP 228/228 .588/.588 112
There is no problems with exhaust flow, that is for sure, Macs with welded 3" collectors aka more of a long tube than a mid length header now. Duals and an H pipe, I vote very free flowing exhaust. LS6 intake, we know how they flow. Mike @ Norris Motorsports and myself were discussing some things after I tuned, he believes the problem lies somewhere in the heads. Mike has been building and tuning all sorts of setups on LS1s for a few years now, he knows his stuff.
There is no problems with exhaust flow, that is for sure, Macs with welded 3" collectors aka more of a long tube than a mid length header now. Duals and an H pipe, I vote very free flowing exhaust. LS6 intake, we know how they flow. Mike @ Norris Motorsports and myself were discussing some things after I tuned, he believes the problem lies somewhere in the heads. Mike has been building and tuning all sorts of setups on LS1s for a few years now, he knows his stuff.
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno Keith,
Sorry to hear it's not what you where expecting..but the number's arent horrible bro...even though you now have 3" collectors and the h-pipe...the exhaust is still choked ..arent mac's 1 5/8" Primary's? and isnt the h-pipe 2 1/2" or is it 3"? I have seen cars put down over 400 rear wheel with mac's before...but with MTI head's or GTP heads...not saying patriot's are bad...just saying I would rather have GTP's or MTI's if i wanted every last drop of power out of the combo...but also the Patriot's are half the price
Anyway's good luck man..im gunna hit the dyno on monday or tuesday to see how the 228R does over the 224/230 i had...and if I lost power anywhere than you might just be needin a cam swap :p I will say one thing though bro...I totally agree that the HOT cam is freakin awesome lol...iv'e had the 224/230 cam,the hot cam, and now the TSP 228R...I kinda want to go back to the hot cam lol (j/k!) I loved that cam though for sure 
anyway's..hope all work's out for you man,
Carter
Sorry to hear it's not what you where expecting..but the number's arent horrible bro...even though you now have 3" collectors and the h-pipe...the exhaust is still choked ..arent mac's 1 5/8" Primary's? and isnt the h-pipe 2 1/2" or is it 3"? I have seen cars put down over 400 rear wheel with mac's before...but with MTI head's or GTP heads...not saying patriot's are bad...just saying I would rather have GTP's or MTI's if i wanted every last drop of power out of the combo...but also the Patriot's are half the price
Anyway's good luck man..im gunna hit the dyno on monday or tuesday to see how the 228R does over the 224/230 i had...and if I lost power anywhere than you might just be needin a cam swap :p I will say one thing though bro...I totally agree that the HOT cam is freakin awesome lol...iv'e had the 224/230 cam,the hot cam, and now the TSP 228R...I kinda want to go back to the hot cam lol (j/k!) I loved that cam though for sure anyway's..hope all work's out for you man,Carter
11 Second Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,311
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From: loudoun county,va
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno hmmmm looking at your sig i do not see anything about a clutch...
you made almost 450 hp on spray b4...
i am sure you have sprayed more then once...
your combo looks good for 420 hp n/a now....
could it be that your stock clutch has given up the ghost???
just a thought...
you made almost 450 hp on spray b4...
i am sure you have sprayed more then once...
your combo looks good for 420 hp n/a now....
could it be that your stock clutch has given up the ghost???
just a thought...
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno I put a SPEC S3 in last month because the stock clutch was not liking the 100 shot on it. I really haven't been spraying on the stock clutch because I knew it was on borrowed time. Since I have the new setup, it is jetted for a 150 shot. I think I will change the fuel jet one smaller, like a 33, because it was pretty fat on spray. I was really expecting 400-410 N/A. That would have been all I wanted for the setup. I sent my edit file over to TSP, maybe they can suggest something for me to change. Don't get me wrong, I am loving the new power, feels very strong. I just might need some more tweaking in certain areas. So if anyone has any ideas for some tweaking, I am all ears. It needs a kick in the *** down low.
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 316
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From: bronx ny
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno Heritage, It doesent really look like there is anything else to do, you can try dynoing with a cut out to make sure your mufflers are good but they make the power with the nox, the lack of torque is worse then not making 400 rwhp, do you know if there is any advance in the cam? hopefully you can find a better cam after you get the heads checked. Also compare your results after 10secondz gets his dynoed, keep us updated
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno The graph appears to start to drop at ~2,700 rpm bottom at 3,000rpm, they stay flat to about ~3,400 rpm then by 3,500 rpm it's climbed back to where it was around 3,700 rpm. There are other dips ~3,700 & 4,400 rpm. I know the the 228 cam is pretty big but I don't recall see dips like that before. Should those dips be there?
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno The setup lost alot of low end and isn't making any gains with the TQ aound 3k compared to the Hotcam. Carter has an A4, but we will see how he does. I believe it is 112LSA + 2*
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: loudoun county,va
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno did you have cam degreed when it was installed???
i know it dont happen much but sometimes its just cut wronge or wronge cam packed in box.. always best to check... cam might be off a few degrees???
just a thought.
i know it dont happen much but sometimes its just cut wronge or wronge cam packed in box.. always best to check... cam might be off a few degrees???
just a thought.
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno I'm curious, what does the advance ground into the cam do? Cuz I have the same cam he does (228/228 .588/.588 112), but mine has +4 advance ground in. Does it make you have to change anything with your tuning? Just curious here to learn something new!
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,695
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno Dont be discouraged, those are pretty good numbers IMHO. Maybe it was a shy dyno, or maybe your car is just not a dyno queen. If it feels good then be happy.
On a side note IMHO- The 'slight' gain you got from leaning your car out to 13.3 is not worth it. Tune it to 12.5-12.8 for street use if this is a daily driver (considering the small gain you got from going 12:1 --> 13.3:1 .
On a side note IMHO- The 'slight' gain you got from leaning your car out to 13.3 is not worth it. Tune it to 12.5-12.8 for street use if this is a daily driver (considering the small gain you got from going 12:1 --> 13.3:1 .
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno The only real way for the cam to be off a few degrees is if the crank gear was advanced or retarded. If it were advanced more than 2* either way, I would have bigger problems like 16 bent valves.
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno A 228 cam with a torque peak a 4200 rpm. I would think it should be up around 4700 to 5000. Are you sure you got the cam you wanted? Toss that hot cam back in there and dyno that. If the heads are OK you should see some good numbers.
I think this just goes to show that doing mods 1 at a time is worthwhile.
I think this just goes to show that doing mods 1 at a time is worthwhile.
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno The cam card from Comp cams said it was a 228, I never measured the lobes on the cam though. I am going to wait till I see Carters dyno before I start tearing into it again.
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno Keith
I have been searching around for some posts that refernce Norris' dyno. I haven't found any big numbers from his dyno yet (there may be some), he just may have a real conservative dyno. Has he ever had a stock cube car dyno over 420rwhp down there? I would think that the other car you were talking about with the MMS cam and heads would have been well over 400rwhp too.
I have been searching around for some posts that refernce Norris' dyno. I haven't found any big numbers from his dyno yet (there may be some), he just may have a real conservative dyno. Has he ever had a stock cube car dyno over 420rwhp down there? I would think that the other car you were talking about with the MMS cam and heads would have been well over 400rwhp too.
Re: PPS2 heads and 228R dyno
A 228 cam with a torque peak a 4200 rpm. I would think it should be up around 4700 to 5000. Are you sure you got the cam you wanted? Toss that hot cam back in there and dyno that. If the heads are OK you should see some good numbers.
I think this just goes to show that doing mods 1 at a time is worthwhile.
I think this just goes to show that doing mods 1 at a time is worthwhile.