88blackgt

I really dont think you have a clue on the subject? You have a single baseless opinion and you're trying to pass it off as fact and really ignore any sort of common sense argument. Go read Iron Fist, Lead Foot. The development of the Terminator was actually well documented there.

Its got IRS and its more expensive than a base gt; it must compete with the vette! Man does it fail.

Little did you guys know, the GT500 was actually meant to be direct competition for the Veyron. Ford thought by keeping things simple with a lower price point it could draw buyers away from the Veyron and dominate the supercar segment. Ford actually succeeded and sold many more GT500s. Next week we'll discuss the Malibu redesign coming as a late response to the Ford GT.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

How do I not have a clue? A baseless opinion? How can you say that? 95% of the people on this board say the Cobra should be compared to the Z, "Just because". I have posted up many facts about all the platforms we are talking about and gave a reason for my opinion. I came to a conclusion on what I thought based upon all of the facts about all the platforms not just jumped on a band wagon about it. I am not trying to pass my thoughts on the subject off as facts, I am passing facts about the platforms off as facts.
I have not ignored what anybody else has said I have responded with a counter to each post, except for your last post.

Like I said, you have not grasped anything I have posted about the topic. This is the last time I will respond to you.

88blackgt

Point is there is no need for conjecture. The intentions of the Cobra have been explicitly stated by Ford, yet you continue to disagree.

Ke^in

"95% of the people on this board say the Cobra should be compared to the Z"

I'd like to see that bar graph.
What does Ford know about Mustangs? Pfft.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Do you disagree?

Difference is 90% of those people have no basis on why they think it should be compared to the Z. Band wagon.

88blackgt

1 million wrong people are still wrong

It'llrun

Maybe, maybe not...

No... 03/04 got fully forged internals. Previous 4.6L versions only had forged cranks as far as I know. The "Terminator" got special production pistons and rods.. Manley or something. Anyway, very different builds. The 2003/4 also got different (Recaro) front seats and obviously different exterior plastic(lights, etc.), and a 6spd with a different shifter. I think the brakes were also different(larger, more caliper pistons), bringing in larger wheels... I'm not sure on that, but it seems as such from memory.

The only 00 Cobra was the Cobra R... A VERY different league than other pony cars.

I agree that it was more than a limited production model, based on sales. Still, when considering the GT, production of the Cobra was quite limited.

I agree here too, for the most part. It was CLEARLY NOT made as competition for the Corvette, or Ford would've built it with a 2 seat chassis, weighing at good 400 lb less.

Nope... 2004 was the earliest you might get that.

It was closer to centered. HOWEVER, the 2003 Cobra was actually VERY close in price to a similarly equipped SS. That said, as I recall, there were simply more standard features on the 2003 Cobra than available features on the 2002 SS in its highest offering.

In that sense, the Cobra was much less expensive than the ZO6 and notably less than a standard Corvette, which had plenty more options than the Z/28(it's worth mentioning). "Base" means little without knowing what equipment was standard on each car. The Corvette(non-Z) had more "standard" features than the Cobra, but the Cobra had far more than the Camaro.

When equipped closely to the Cobra, the SS fell WAY short in "bang for the buck." Not only did it cost about the same, but the Z/28(or SS) really wasn't close competition when considering the Cobra clearly outperformed it while maintaining a much better resale(better than ZO6 even) and having such a stronger engine(no rebuild needed for 9's, for example), plus more features... just not close.

Eh... It was made to be a better performer... and it is.... to this day. The GTO though, not so much. I mean, it wasn't offered until after the 03... It gets TROUNCED by the Cobra in question, but the point is, Ford made it as a point of end, probably egging GM on more than anything.

The 03/04 got IRS and had a 155mph speed limiter from the factory. That made it SLOWER than the Camaro, but then... by the time Camaro got to speed, the Cobra may be a mile ahead, literally.

Corvette? One in base form cost much more, but they are well equipped in base form.

Moving back, but onward... The Cobra was Fords "upgrade" for Mustang GT, as is the GT500 today. The comparison between Z/28 and Cobra can be changed to SS vs Cobra without skipping a beat. When Ford offered the 1993 Cobra, it wasn't much different than the 1993 GT... When GM offered the 1996 SS, it wasn't much different than the Z/28. That STUCK with the GM side but Ford stepped up(also in 1996) by using a higher end engine and even transmission(eventually), as well as IRS beginning in 1999.

All said, the 1996-2002 on models were close in cost and performance, considering Camaro SS and Mustang Cobra. Today, the Mustang GT cost about the same as the Camaro SS... Go figure. Meanwhile, the GT500 costs plenty more, but let's just let it be, considering how much better it performs than the others. It's seriously on "better than" base Corvette territory. On that note: I just think it's too bad Ford doesn't still offer the Ford GT to compete against Corvette. It was/is an astounding car and I, for one(of millions) frankly see no real comparison between a true sports car and ... NOT a true sports car.

There's no comparison between a "base Cobra" and "base Z/28" because the Cobra was not "base," so any comparison should use the SS, in years it was available, which was most. In 2002, the comparably equipped(because several "options" were simply standard Cobra equipment) SS cost within about 1K of the 2003 Cobra. Before then, the Cobra and SS were close in price, as were the Z/28 and GT.

franksaltz28

iTrader: (1)

My bolt on camaro beat cobras, how do u figure that they were that much faster? I know with a pully and a tune they are nasty cars, but they arent that far ahead of fbodys stock.

Irunelevens

If you wanna talk fastest numbers, I believe Evan Smith ran a 12.3 in an '03 Cobra, and a 12.7 in an LS1 Z28.

Ke^in

I disagree that 95% of the people believe that the 03/04 Mustang Cobra was made to be in direct comp with the Z06. Yes, yes I do.

I feel that people in here are far far smarter than that.

Again Ford said it was made to compete with the LS1 Fbodies. Be it the Z29, SS, or the T/A. Had it been ANY LESS of a car it wouldn't have beaten these cars, let a lone be in comp with the Vette.


The problems we are seeing for the most part is people expecting to follow GM's car lineup. Ford has never done that. Especially since it was the original pony car maker. The Termi Cobra was more expensive than than fully optioned Z28/SS (Not by a lot) but it was also faster. GM had it's Vette, but Ford didn't have a car in it's class. The Ford GT while still competing with the Z06, cost more. And so it should have. It was a better over all performing car. What I seemed to be getting here is complaints that Ford didn't make a car that was FASTER for the same amount of money. (Well until 2011 that is) Well neither has GM ever done such a thing. And please, don't attempt to say that the 2002 Z28s and GTs were the same price. ANYONE around during that time looking at either cars knows the Z28 at least, were going for about 5k more off the lot. They used the "Larger displacement" excuse. You could get a FULLY OPTIONED GT in 2002 for less than 23k. Again, ask me how I know.

It'llrun

I've seen plenty of modified cars run better than stock cars, meaning basically nothing. It isn't something worth much discussion really. Stock for stock... The winner is obvious here. Superchargers just work. If you think a stock 4th gen can reach 155mph nearly as soon as a stock Cobra, I just don't know what to tell you other than, wrong. I'm not really interested in "best ever" or "modified 4th gen vs. stock Cobra" numbers because that's simply not realistic.

franksaltz28

iTrader: (1)

Im saying stock for stock there isnt much of a diffrence in speed, but either one with basic modifications will turn the table.

Mr370z

I think any of this is no longer relevant considering the Terminators are no longer made, the 4th gen is out of production. The NEW '11 5.0 vs the "zeta" '10 Camaro SS.

It's once again back to what most of the last posts have discussed: options and price. It's my understanding an '11 Mustang GT with the OPTIONAL 3.73's will outperform any factory optioned '10 Camaro SS you can buy. A bare bones '10 Camaro SS and the aforementioned optioned '11 Mustang GT should be very similar in my area price wise, much closer than I thought. But how many 1SS's have I seen? Maybe 2 or 3?

If we're talking pure performance I'd still pick the '11 5.0 over the '10 Camaro.

camar0corey

iTrader: (22)

So ah, anyone run a new 5.0 yet?

firechicken76

iTrader: (14)

unsubscribing, this thread fails........

ss1129

iTrader: (16)

Ive seen a couple of them on the intertubz. Maybe next tuesday at Gateway if Im lucky.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Yea, same people that will never give up on the interwebz.

nuclearmuscle523

A lot of misinformation in this thread. Absolutely stupid.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Thanks for bumping a dead thread.