Starter issues on day 2!
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Starter issues on day 2! Hi all, I am a NOOB here and to ls1 power as well. Things have not started out well. On the second day of ownership, before I even got the car registered and on the road, I turned the key to start it and heard a snap and then a high pitch wiz and nothing else. I quickly discovered the problem to be that there was a (long) starter bolt laying on the driveway. I assumed it was loose and fell out causing the starter to be misaligned and the bendix to miss the flywheel. The next day when I went under there to simply put the bolt back in, I found a nasty little surprise laying in the header tubes. I discovered what I'm sure many ls1 owners reading this already know, that part of the mounting bracket for the long side bolt had snapped off and now needs to be TIGed back on. Making matters worse, it tore the other ear off the starter effectively turning it into a core. What a PITA!! Anyone know of someone who can do this properly and relatively inexpensively in the NYC area? I already found a guy who can do it in the car for $400 but I have to pull the header down first. That repair plus a new starter and I'm already in for $500+. I haven't owned this thing for a week yet!!!
Last edited by 99ws6ta346; Mar 3, 2013 at 12:35 AM.
That's already a new starter. Who ever you bought it from hacked it together because it was already broken.
Not easy to get to for welding. $400 is definitely too much if all they are doing is welding.
Not easy to get to for welding. $400 is definitely too much if all they are doing is welding.
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Would be very upset if that were the case considering I got it from someone I know...
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Pulled the header out this morning. When I pulled #8 plug out, some liquid spilled out of the hole. Smelled like fuel but not straight fuel - almost as if it was diluted possibly with coolant. My new theory is that possibly the engine was hydro-locked and that's what caused this whole clusterfuck. I hope the aluminum mount and starter ear quit before a con rod or valve (or both) bent.
Opinions?
Opinions?
Usually the connecting rod gets bent when the motor hydrolocks. Your best bet is to pull the motor and check it out, then have the broken starter mount welded when it's out of the car.
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The car was not overheated while I have had it which amounts to only a week today and included a grand total of two quick rides around the block since it was not registered yet. What was done prior, I cannot vouch for but I got the car from someone I know who is not an idiot about cars and I would think he knew better than to overheat it. I pulled the radiator cap after the last post and yep...the coolant looks like chocolate milk. I'm 90% sure there is oil in it. It should be orange, green, or at worst clear but not brown. Tomorrow when it is light out and hopefully a little warmer I will drain the cooling system and see what it looks like. At this point, I'd be willing to bet it's a head gasket that caused this whole mess. Now the only question is whether it bent a connecting rod. I am really hopeful though because I spun the rotating assembly around a couple of times this morning and did not feel any unusual resistance. I would think if a rod was bent it would be forcing the piston to scrape the wall of the bore. Is this an incorrect assumption?
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Dexcool turns brown and sludges up after a while so it sounds normal to me. A bent con rod won't always force the piston to cause any restriction of movement but it can lead to cylinder scoring and uneven wear over a period of time.
As 703 CAMAROSS said do a compression test before you disassemble it to see where you stand. If it's low pull the heads and check the head gaskets and look for cylinder scoring from a misaligned piston due to a bent con rod.
As 703 CAMAROSS said do a compression test before you disassemble it to see where you stand. If it's low pull the heads and check the head gaskets and look for cylinder scoring from a misaligned piston due to a bent con rod.
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Did you ever notice it smoking white? What you can dorright now is a pressure test on your cooling system. Also a leak down test on your cylinders, you don't even need to fix your starter issue to do those. That's is where I would start.
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Never noticed any unusual white smoke. I was actually planning on doing both of those things 703. Working on borrowing the necessary equipment. I have most of this week before the guy who's going to TIG it can get it in anyway so I'd like to have as much information as possible before it goes. Last thing I need is to put it back together and have it happen again...with worse results.
It's ironic, I ditched the drag car because I just wanted a cool moderately fast car to cruise in and dust the occasional ricer pilot or rustang and I've done more wrenching in a weekend than the past year on the 69 Bird (avatar pic).
@ Red thanks for the info on the Dexcool. I did not know that. Hopefully, pressure testing the cooling system will tell the tale.
It's ironic, I ditched the drag car because I just wanted a cool moderately fast car to cruise in and dust the occasional ricer pilot or rustang and I've done more wrenching in a weekend than the past year on the 69 Bird (avatar pic).
@ Red thanks for the info on the Dexcool. I did not know that. Hopefully, pressure testing the cooling system will tell the tale.
Last edited by 99ws6ta346; Mar 3, 2013 at 09:00 PM.
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Anybody on here used a 'starter bridge' to fix this issue w/o welding? Also, anybody else running a truck starter without the flimsy inboard bolt ear that probably caused the whole problem in the first place when it ******* snapped?
The liquid in the #8 cylinder caused the starter and mount to break. Luckily for you it happened, because if the motor would have started running the lower end would have been severely damaged.
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Exactly what I was thinking. I need to pressurize the cooling system and find out if it's a head gasket. Trust me, once the starter issues have been dealt with, Ill be cranking that bad boy over with no plugs in it...
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it appears to me that you have a hydro-lock situation. That starter broke for a reason. Seen it before. You get coolant into the cylinder and when you go to crank the engine, the piston cannot get around and the whole rotating assembly locks up. That causes the starter flanges to snap from the torque of the starter itself. Get the car to a professional to do a coolant system pressure test. I've also seen where the intake seals fail and water gets into the cylinder from rain water leaking past the hood seal.
Mike
Mike
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No problem, I arrived at the same conclusion about a week ago. Did a pressure test myself and it checked out (held pressure). I know for a fact that there was 'liquid' in no. 8 because it spilled out when I pulled the plug. It was not coolant however. It appeared to be clear (not brownish like the Dexcool) and smelled vaguely like fuel. Not sure what's going on but I rotated the assembly after the pressure test which was above 18 PSI and no further fluid was apparent in 8. After I put it back together, I'll spin it with the plug out and do further testing. I plan on keeping a close eye on things. I am much happier the starter tab snapped and caused this chain of events than something worse like a bent connecting rod for instance or a bent valve or both.
No problem, I arrived at the same conclusion about a week ago. Did a pressure test myself and it checked out (held pressure). I know for a fact that there was 'liquid' in no. 8 because it spilled out when I pulled the plug. It was not coolant however. It appeared to be clear (not brownish like the Dexcool) and smelled vaguely like fuel. Not sure what's going on but I rotated the assembly after the pressure test which was above 18 PSI and no further fluid was apparent in 8. After I put it back together, I'll spin it with the plug out and do further testing. I plan on keeping a close eye on things. I am much happier the starter tab snapped and caused this chain of events than something worse like a bent connecting rod for instance or a bent valve or both.
EDIT: It's probably water intrusion from a poor injector seal. FAST intakes were famous for that as well as warping, poor sealing of the top and bottom halves and poor intake to head seal. Since it is the #8, I would bet it is an injector seal leaking water after rain or wash. The hood seals leak and water lays on the top of the rear parts of the manifold.
Mikey
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Actually, I just figured I'd mention that the previous owner of the car had apparently made his own wires from coil pack to plug and interestingly enough while test driving the car, I noticed it was a touch down on power so we stopped and discovered that the wire on #8 had come off the plug. This is actually the first thing I though of when I saw the liquid come out of that hole but it definitely wasn't straight fuel although there was some fuel in it. If the car was running the injector would be spitting fuel into the cylinder that was not getting ignited but I would think it would be expelled out of the exhaust valve.
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Its also possible you have a injector leaking down, but usually they down leak enough fuel to hydro lock the engine. Was it raining at all while it was sitting before you started it? Every Ls1 fbody I've owned leaked rain water around the windshield cowling onto the engine. Also every Ls1 I've owned has had loose intake bolts. You can tighten them at least 3-4 times until they stay tight.
I recently bought a low mileage 02 WS6 and sure enough the intake bolts were loose. I torqued them to 89 inch lbs the 1st time and thought I was ok. Few weeks I noticed the engine would shake a bit cold until it got into closed loop. Scanned everything looked ok but the fuel trims were a little off. Just for grins I checked the intake bolts.....THEY WERE ALL LOOSE again! So last I got the engine hot and then torqued then as the engine cooled I went back over them about 4-5 times until they actually didn't move anymore. Cars runs super nice now.
Once after a rain storm I went to start my 02 formula, turned over very hard then started. Sure enough the intake bolts were loose, I tightened them and sealed the windshield cowling and it never happened again.
Ya know the new Camaro use a cover over the top of the engine to deaden sound and protect it from rain.
I'd also update to the later starter that uses the same length bolts. It won't break off.
I recently bought a low mileage 02 WS6 and sure enough the intake bolts were loose. I torqued them to 89 inch lbs the 1st time and thought I was ok. Few weeks I noticed the engine would shake a bit cold until it got into closed loop. Scanned everything looked ok but the fuel trims were a little off. Just for grins I checked the intake bolts.....THEY WERE ALL LOOSE again! So last I got the engine hot and then torqued then as the engine cooled I went back over them about 4-5 times until they actually didn't move anymore. Cars runs super nice now.
Once after a rain storm I went to start my 02 formula, turned over very hard then started. Sure enough the intake bolts were loose, I tightened them and sealed the windshield cowling and it never happened again.
Ya know the new Camaro use a cover over the top of the engine to deaden sound and protect it from rain.
I'd also update to the later starter that uses the same length bolts. It won't break off.
Last edited by RockinWs6; May 14, 2013 at 02:51 PM.