My analysis of the QMP kit
09-13-2003, 01:53 PM
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My analysis of the QMP kit NOTE: This is not an attack on QMP or anything just my stated observations about the single turbo kit and my install.
Hi folks. I promised many I would do a write up of my thoughts on the QMP kit after I got done installing it. I am by no means a "grease monkey" so I consider myself the "average joe" so to speak. I'm a software engineer by trade so I can follow instructions to the letter and that is one of my main gripes with the kit as I'll detail down below.
The car: 2002 Blue Pontiac Trans-am Firehawk
Order Date: May 15th-16th-ish
Final kit parts received: August 15th.
First I must say that without access to my friend Bob's garage and lift, this job would be near impossible, so forget about doing it in your garage on jack stands.
I must also note that this kit considers that your fuel rails are stock. ls1speed.com or custom fabricated aluminum rails will not fit with the alternator relocation without cutting the rail and/or buying some really custom hose ends (see mightymouse) I'll get into this later.
1. I installed my fuel system first, which went pretty well considering. Tapped a 8an bulkhead into the top of the plastic housing lid on the tank, walbro 340 inside. ran 8an to a aeromotive filter and ran 8an up to the passenger side rail. Crossed over 8an to a 6an line which went to the aeromotive FMU and a 6an back to the old feed connector on the tank lid.
2. From the get-go I knew I'd run into problems installing the kit. The first part was that the only instructions I had were from the QMP web site, and only 3/4 instructions of the install at that. Nothing about injectors, mounting and wiring the alternator, etc. All this had to be figured out by me and friends. Which I'll get into later.
3. The first part was taking apart the nose of the car. easy enough, pulled out the hood latch assembly and cut it. Mounted the intercooler and noticed that the hood latch assembly spring on the passenger side would contact the intercooler (bending fins and possibly eventually puncturing it) so I took off the latch assembly and ground down the metal on the bottom of the "spring holder" until it was just clear of the intercooler.
4. I removed the alternator and at this point figured now would be as good as time as any to see how it would relocate. After a couple minutes of figuring out how the relocation bracket mounted and how the tensioner mounted, I got it on there only to realize that even after cutting off the plastic of the alternator that I needed about 5/8" more space before the alternator would fit with my new ls1speed fuel rails. So I bought a new alternator (under suggestion from Mightymouse) for a 97 bravado. It still wouldn't fit. So I cut the fuel rail 1/2" (max I could cut) and re-tapped it for 3/8" and it still wouldn't fit, so I bought a 3/8" to 8AN 90deg fitting, and mounted the 90deg crossover end onto it. Finally it fit, with no contact at all.
5. While I put the alternator fitment stuff on the backburner (had to special order a 3/8" tap for the rail) I proceeded to install the kit. There were several points along the way where I knew specifically the turbo would run into contact problems, specifically with the front sway bar bracket bolts, brackets, etc. Since I had the front sway bar off for weight savings anyway, I said fk it and took the brackets off, etc.
6. Turbo log went in ok, so on so forth. Until it came time to mount the oil feed line. The line provided to me had two 45deg 4an hose fittings. The one in the install picture had two 90deg 4an fittings. Needless to say, the 45deg hit the wastegate feed pipe thus not allowing the turbo housing to be level. Good thing for me I had a 90deg 1/8npt to 4an fitting. I replaced the straight fitting on the turbo with this and fixed the problem. QMP should note this.
7. The next problem was tightening down the bolts around the turbo to the exhaust housing. You either have to have super small hands (child size) or you have to do what I did and take off the wastegate. Which in itself is a major task when the log is already mounted on the car and the down pipe extension is hammered on with the death grip from hell. Basically not being able to take the log off the car. Major PITA.
8. When it came time to mount the piping. It was found that the pipe that goes from the turbo to the intercooler was too long. Oh yeah BTW, you'll have to bend the bracket for your car horn so the pipe fits through that area. Anyway, the pipe on the turbo side actually sat inside the turbo outlet in order to fit and line up with the intercooler connection. We fixed this by cutting off about 2" of the pipe (pretty much that little bend on the end) with a wiz wheel in order to keep the pipe from sitting inside the housing.
9. I rerouted the stock Alternator wiring and didn't use the red dinky wire that came with the kit. No instructions by the way on where to wire spliced that wire. The stock wiring was plenty long enough to use as long as you brought it above the fan mounting points. The one thing that wasn't mentioned at all and nobody knew about apparently was the voltage ref. plug that went into the side of the alternator. It had one red wire going into a large plug, and this of course had to be extended up to the top of the car. I got a friend with soldering skills and he wired it up. QMP take note about this.
10. exhaust pipes went on ok, the cross over pipe does hang very low and barely touches my B&M deep tranny pan (again this is designed for a stock car) These pipes could probably be brought up and away about 1/2" with no problems. QMP take note.
11. After many many many tries, I finally got a 1/8" npt fitting to go into the waste gate. QMP take note, make sure every kit ships with the fittings installed I got the fittings from pepboys and after an hour of trying got it to go in. God help me when I want to put on a boost controller. lol.
12. I had to do some major cutting on the fan shroud, more so than I expected for the 90deg elbow off the turbo intake but when I got the elbow on, the cruise control relocation wouldn't allow the intake pipe, MAF, and air filter (which is too big) to fit in the front wheel area. So I ziptied the cruise box, up and away from the frame rail. This made more room. Next was the filter issue. We had to cut the intake pipe about 1/2" in order for the air filter to fit. QMP take note: QMP sends out RU-1785 and this wont work (at least I didn't get it to work) You need RU-3130 which is only 7" long instead of the 9" of RU1785, and thus gives you about 2" of room for the air temp sensor on the end of the filter. Note, after cutting the QMP intake pipe we did get the 9" 1785 filter to fit in there, but the sensor was touching/pushing the body out some, so this wasn't good enough for me. Thus I ordered a diff./better filter. Also, now I can put the splash cover back on too.
13. The steering shaft will hit your down pipe. QMP makes a few dents in the down pipe to clear it but the knuckle will hit. You will need to raise the engine on the driver side mount by using a shim or washers or something. I have yet to do this, so steering isn't much fun. QMP take note, including a shim in this kit would be advisable
14. At WOT the wastegate only allows 4-4.5 psi of boost. My friend says that's what they call "soft springs" where they release before their rating. A boost controller will fix this obviously, but it's BS that I can't get 6psi at least. QMP should notify their customers of this possibility. *EDIT* I've talked to my turbo friends, they say this should be expected because of how a wastegate works. I did actually see 5-5.5 psi today. It gradually starts to open at around 3psi thus boost goes up very slowly from around there. Next thing on my list is a boost controller indeed. I highly recommend people who get this kit get one as well after their tune.
Conclusion: Yes QMP says it's a tight fit, and after tweaking and custom cutting, it fits well. But don't expect to go into installing this kit thinking it's an exact bolt on. I had about 4-5hr an night to work on it and due to all the problems I ran into it took me about 4 weeks to do. So figure close to 60hrs for all the **** I did. If I knew what I know now about all the crap I would have gone through it'd probably take me 30hrs. Is it worth the 1500 they charge for install? If I was able to sit there and watch them install it, yes. Hopefully QMP would install their kit correctly and make the necessary changes like I had to. If you can install this kit, you can pretty much install anything lol. Overall, I'm happy so far. Besides the few minor oil leaks and power steering line leaks, it's a bad *** sound to have a turbo. I broke nearly every neck on the road blowing off past the ricers the other night. All my friends creamed their pants and I had the cops looking for me after I gave out several joy rides. The car still needs tuning and a MAP wiring problem fixed so once that's complete it should be beastie. The car chirps third on Nittos as it sits right now and I love it. hehe.
That's the story and I'm stickin to it.
Hi folks. I promised many I would do a write up of my thoughts on the QMP kit after I got done installing it. I am by no means a "grease monkey" so I consider myself the "average joe" so to speak. I'm a software engineer by trade so I can follow instructions to the letter and that is one of my main gripes with the kit as I'll detail down below.
The car: 2002 Blue Pontiac Trans-am Firehawk
Order Date: May 15th-16th-ish
Final kit parts received: August 15th.
First I must say that without access to my friend Bob's garage and lift, this job would be near impossible, so forget about doing it in your garage on jack stands.
I must also note that this kit considers that your fuel rails are stock. ls1speed.com or custom fabricated aluminum rails will not fit with the alternator relocation without cutting the rail and/or buying some really custom hose ends (see mightymouse) I'll get into this later.
1. I installed my fuel system first, which went pretty well considering. Tapped a 8an bulkhead into the top of the plastic housing lid on the tank, walbro 340 inside. ran 8an to a aeromotive filter and ran 8an up to the passenger side rail. Crossed over 8an to a 6an line which went to the aeromotive FMU and a 6an back to the old feed connector on the tank lid.
2. From the get-go I knew I'd run into problems installing the kit. The first part was that the only instructions I had were from the QMP web site, and only 3/4 instructions of the install at that. Nothing about injectors, mounting and wiring the alternator, etc. All this had to be figured out by me and friends. Which I'll get into later.
3. The first part was taking apart the nose of the car. easy enough, pulled out the hood latch assembly and cut it. Mounted the intercooler and noticed that the hood latch assembly spring on the passenger side would contact the intercooler (bending fins and possibly eventually puncturing it) so I took off the latch assembly and ground down the metal on the bottom of the "spring holder" until it was just clear of the intercooler.
4. I removed the alternator and at this point figured now would be as good as time as any to see how it would relocate. After a couple minutes of figuring out how the relocation bracket mounted and how the tensioner mounted, I got it on there only to realize that even after cutting off the plastic of the alternator that I needed about 5/8" more space before the alternator would fit with my new ls1speed fuel rails. So I bought a new alternator (under suggestion from Mightymouse) for a 97 bravado. It still wouldn't fit. So I cut the fuel rail 1/2" (max I could cut) and re-tapped it for 3/8" and it still wouldn't fit, so I bought a 3/8" to 8AN 90deg fitting, and mounted the 90deg crossover end onto it. Finally it fit, with no contact at all.
5. While I put the alternator fitment stuff on the backburner (had to special order a 3/8" tap for the rail) I proceeded to install the kit. There were several points along the way where I knew specifically the turbo would run into contact problems, specifically with the front sway bar bracket bolts, brackets, etc. Since I had the front sway bar off for weight savings anyway, I said fk it and took the brackets off, etc.
6. Turbo log went in ok, so on so forth. Until it came time to mount the oil feed line. The line provided to me had two 45deg 4an hose fittings. The one in the install picture had two 90deg 4an fittings. Needless to say, the 45deg hit the wastegate feed pipe thus not allowing the turbo housing to be level. Good thing for me I had a 90deg 1/8npt to 4an fitting. I replaced the straight fitting on the turbo with this and fixed the problem. QMP should note this.
7. The next problem was tightening down the bolts around the turbo to the exhaust housing. You either have to have super small hands (child size) or you have to do what I did and take off the wastegate. Which in itself is a major task when the log is already mounted on the car and the down pipe extension is hammered on with the death grip from hell. Basically not being able to take the log off the car. Major PITA.
8. When it came time to mount the piping. It was found that the pipe that goes from the turbo to the intercooler was too long. Oh yeah BTW, you'll have to bend the bracket for your car horn so the pipe fits through that area. Anyway, the pipe on the turbo side actually sat inside the turbo outlet in order to fit and line up with the intercooler connection. We fixed this by cutting off about 2" of the pipe (pretty much that little bend on the end) with a wiz wheel in order to keep the pipe from sitting inside the housing.
9. I rerouted the stock Alternator wiring and didn't use the red dinky wire that came with the kit. No instructions by the way on where to wire spliced that wire. The stock wiring was plenty long enough to use as long as you brought it above the fan mounting points. The one thing that wasn't mentioned at all and nobody knew about apparently was the voltage ref. plug that went into the side of the alternator. It had one red wire going into a large plug, and this of course had to be extended up to the top of the car. I got a friend with soldering skills and he wired it up. QMP take note about this.
10. exhaust pipes went on ok, the cross over pipe does hang very low and barely touches my B&M deep tranny pan (again this is designed for a stock car) These pipes could probably be brought up and away about 1/2" with no problems. QMP take note.
11. After many many many tries, I finally got a 1/8" npt fitting to go into the waste gate. QMP take note, make sure every kit ships with the fittings installed I got the fittings from pepboys and after an hour of trying got it to go in. God help me when I want to put on a boost controller. lol.
12. I had to do some major cutting on the fan shroud, more so than I expected for the 90deg elbow off the turbo intake but when I got the elbow on, the cruise control relocation wouldn't allow the intake pipe, MAF, and air filter (which is too big) to fit in the front wheel area. So I ziptied the cruise box, up and away from the frame rail. This made more room. Next was the filter issue. We had to cut the intake pipe about 1/2" in order for the air filter to fit. QMP take note: QMP sends out RU-1785 and this wont work (at least I didn't get it to work) You need RU-3130 which is only 7" long instead of the 9" of RU1785, and thus gives you about 2" of room for the air temp sensor on the end of the filter. Note, after cutting the QMP intake pipe we did get the 9" 1785 filter to fit in there, but the sensor was touching/pushing the body out some, so this wasn't good enough for me. Thus I ordered a diff./better filter. Also, now I can put the splash cover back on too.
13. The steering shaft will hit your down pipe. QMP makes a few dents in the down pipe to clear it but the knuckle will hit. You will need to raise the engine on the driver side mount by using a shim or washers or something. I have yet to do this, so steering isn't much fun. QMP take note, including a shim in this kit would be advisable
14. At WOT the wastegate only allows 4-4.5 psi of boost. My friend says that's what they call "soft springs" where they release before their rating. A boost controller will fix this obviously, but it's BS that I can't get 6psi at least. QMP should notify their customers of this possibility. *EDIT* I've talked to my turbo friends, they say this should be expected because of how a wastegate works. I did actually see 5-5.5 psi today. It gradually starts to open at around 3psi thus boost goes up very slowly from around there. Next thing on my list is a boost controller indeed. I highly recommend people who get this kit get one as well after their tune.
Conclusion: Yes QMP says it's a tight fit, and after tweaking and custom cutting, it fits well. But don't expect to go into installing this kit thinking it's an exact bolt on. I had about 4-5hr an night to work on it and due to all the problems I ran into it took me about 4 weeks to do. So figure close to 60hrs for all the **** I did. If I knew what I know now about all the crap I would have gone through it'd probably take me 30hrs. Is it worth the 1500 they charge for install? If I was able to sit there and watch them install it, yes. Hopefully QMP would install their kit correctly and make the necessary changes like I had to. If you can install this kit, you can pretty much install anything lol. Overall, I'm happy so far. Besides the few minor oil leaks and power steering line leaks, it's a bad *** sound to have a turbo. I broke nearly every neck on the road blowing off past the ricers the other night. All my friends creamed their pants and I had the cops looking for me after I gave out several joy rides. The car still needs tuning and a MAP wiring problem fixed so once that's complete it should be beastie. The car chirps third on Nittos as it sits right now and I love it. hehe.
That's the story and I'm stickin to it.
09-13-2003, 02:37 PM
#2
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit Nice writeup...
Some of those variances might be the difference between a Camaro and a TransAm?
FWIW I have not really seen any of the turbo kits look like a DIY job on jackstands but then again I don't have those 5 ton jackstands.
Enjoy!!!
Some of those variances might be the difference between a Camaro and a TransAm?
FWIW I have not really seen any of the turbo kits look like a DIY job on jackstands but then again I don't have those 5 ton jackstands.
Enjoy!!!
09-13-2003, 05:33 PM
#4
Re: My analysis of the QMP kit sounds familiar.. glad you made it through.
the colored pipe up to the throttle body, watch where it bends around the radiator.. mine was starting to get cut from rubbing on the shrout cover.
when you start running some boost you will want to use hairspray on the peice of exhaust tubing connecting the above tube to the black elbow at the tb.. mine was sliding apart over time until i did this. keep an eye on this or it will blow off and have you temporarily thinking that you popped the engine.
get that thign to the track, email me if you have anything further i can help with, tuning etc.
the colored pipe up to the throttle body, watch where it bends around the radiator.. mine was starting to get cut from rubbing on the shrout cover.
when you start running some boost you will want to use hairspray on the peice of exhaust tubing connecting the above tube to the black elbow at the tb.. mine was sliding apart over time until i did this. keep an eye on this or it will blow off and have you temporarily thinking that you popped the engine.
get that thign to the track, email me if you have anything further i can help with, tuning etc.
09-13-2003, 06:17 PM
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit Thanks guys, I'm not sure about the variances between camaro and trans-am but I'd assume there may be some. Just that the instructions don't note it if there are variances.
Right now the car is pig-rich with Ltrims in the -14's lol. I need to get my MAP sensor working again (not sending a signal to PCM) and then I need to get a tune done.
I'll try and be at MIR next month, not sure if I'll be racing, only thing I can really enter would be brackets and wild class, both of which i'd probably loose since it'd be the first time back with a turbo and Joe-o and crew will be in the wild bunch, but we'll see. Plus with the possiblity of my house being blown away next weekend by a category 5 hurricane, I gotta plan for the imediate future only. lol.
L8r guys,
-rob-
Right now the car is pig-rich with Ltrims in the -14's lol. I need to get my MAP sensor working again (not sending a signal to PCM) and then I need to get a tune done.
I'll try and be at MIR next month, not sure if I'll be racing, only thing I can really enter would be brackets and wild class, both of which i'd probably loose since it'd be the first time back with a turbo and Joe-o and crew will be in the wild bunch, but we'll see. Plus with the possiblity of my house being blown away next weekend by a category 5 hurricane, I gotta plan for the imediate future only. lol.
L8r guys,
-rob-
09-14-2003, 11:49 AM
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit good write upman. any of you qmp guys know where I/we could get just a straight screen to put over the turbo instead of running the tube and the air filter? i know my stock filter that came with the kit was restrictive, and i have a different one now, but i know a screen would be much better...
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09-14-2003, 11:42 PM
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit So in the end was it worth it???? What HP levels are you looking at making. Considering the pain and the time you put into it, the 7K for the kit, and the 3 month wait it sounds like a you could have had a built bigger cubed engine that's stronger (forged internals), cheaper, and much less hassle to install. Not trying to get you down or another just asking.
09-15-2003, 12:47 AM
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit
So in the end was it worth it???? What HP levels are you looking at making. Considering the pain and the time you put into it, the 7K for the kit, and the 3 month wait it sounds like a you could have had a built bigger cubed engine that's stronger (forged internals), cheaper, and much less hassle to install. Not trying to get you down or another just asking.
FI is a commitment and a choice that some make. I could have done the big cube N/A route but FI is "sexy" on a v8 and turbo is even more so in my opinion. I live in a town-house community and the thought of a big cube car rumbling down the road gave me pause. My car is loud still now with the turbo and loudmouth catback, so I'm sure I **** them off. If I were to do it again, perhaps I'd do motor first but I'd definately do FI.
My goals the way it sits; well right now I'd like to see the following after tuning: 450rwhp, 600 rwtq @ 7psi. That's a conservative guestimate. I'll find out for sure when all said and tuned.
Not sure about the price of the kit now at 7k. I got it at 6500 minus the programming and fuel pump. I guess production costs went up.
Regarding "car status" (like it matters) You do kinda move into a new "class" with the non-v8'ers when you can say you're turbo charged. Seems to get more jaw drops. Like I said, the ricers were dumbfounded when I blew-off by them. lol.
I'll answer you if it was worth it after I dyno tune her.
09-15-2003, 04:00 PM
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit Judging by all the extra crap that needs to be done, expect to spend at least a couple thousand on labor if you don't do it yourself or drive to Rob's door.
09-15-2003, 10:12 PM
#13
Re: My analysis of the QMP kit Awesome info. Im sure QMP learned some very valuable info that will improve the installation of future kits and therfore the marketability. I notice you did explain this with class and heart. I only hope you find a way to get this thing to the low 11's with ease.
09-17-2003, 11:58 PM
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit
Poor mechanics don't make good advisors...
Deep enough???
SC-
Deep enough???
SC-
Mike
p.s. How's that EVAP canister holding up Mr. expert mechanic?
09-18-2003, 01:08 AM
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Re: My analysis of the QMP kit Very good write-up.
I applaud folks who have the skill, resources, and patience to work on their own cars. especially something as complex as a turbo kit.
Good job!
I applaud folks who have the skill, resources, and patience to work on their own cars. especially something as complex as a turbo kit.
Good job!