buschman

Paul that response was classy and very detailed. Like Crunch said, I'm not experienced enough to help you solve it, but I understand what you're saying. Even though this thread sort of started as flame bait(or "abrasive"), I think if both parties calm down we could all learn something here.

Mike

Rob Raymer

So, after reading through everything you typed, am I to understand that our kit DOES NOT cause the car to overheat? Because I STILL don't see it spelled out clearly. Maybe it's somewhere in your post, but I can't see it.

Lastly, just to address the things you stated:

But not necessary for my car or anyone else's but yours. Nobody else has this problem. MM added a scavenge pump to his car, but it made no difference. He had other problems.

Of course it does. The SLP radiator won't suuport your cubic inches! Which has actually been the problem all along! (along with your exhaust system being too restrictive) Ask anyone, radiators are rated by ci and HP. The SLP radiator is barely any better than stock. I know, I have one.

Sounds good, but it's LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE! The passenger header CANNOT INCREASE BOOST OR LOWER TEMPERATURE. The boost increased because you fixed a leak in the crossover at the same time!

Which is exactly what I had told you would happen. This was obvious to MANY people. Why was it not obvious to ARE?

I'm using the same clamp provided with the kit on my car. IT HAS NEVER BLOWN OFF. But then again, we made sure it was tight! So that is also not the fault of our kit.

Of course it cracked. The car has been running with God knows how much backpressure through that exhaust! Not to mention the fact that it has been running hot for months!

HUH?? The cracks somehow told you where the heat generation was coming from??? I don't know what that means at all. I guess it's over my head.

You are NOWHERE NEAR the power level of needing a 3" crossover. I'm not at that level. If you were making 800rwhp and having those same problems, I could agree with you. But you aren't. You make 550rwhp.

Rob Raymer

Buschman - Can you please get rid of the picture in your Sig? I can't think straight. If that's your woman....you are one lucky man.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

So what's the deal, is the area of primary concern whether the SLP radiator is too small or something?

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

My 2 cents from a turbotech user. My 346 did not run hot with the intercooler in the same location as robs. I added a mac header and larger crossover and that had no effect on temperature and I honestly feel it had a minimal effect on hp.
My last dyno was 573rwhp with the stock rad and fans. I think the problem is the iron block (if that's what you have) and not Robs kit. My guess is you need to look elsewhere for your overheating problem. Maybe you got a headgasket flipped wrong...happened to my dumba$$

White_Hawk

iTrader: (3)

I think that what he is saying has some merit. Switching to the MAC header on the passenger side could have raised the exhaust velocity through the crossover, couldn't it? That velocity going into the log would have helped scavange the driver's side primaries (by increasing the pressure delta in the turbo), and lowered the temperature by getting the exhaust out faster. Am I way off on this, I think it is what he is saying, isn't it?

Rob, how many of your kits are on big cubic inch daily drivers? I think he has made some valid points here relative to big engines and your system.

-Geoff

02BlueFirehawk

Dude, to me it sounds like the solution is to get a custom log made if that's what you think is holding up the engine from performing in a cool manor. Time to find someone who can take rob's design and make it a 3" although I'm sure that wouldn't be cheap.

CHRISPY

Rob,

Have any other customers cracked the turbo manifold? Were they overheating as well or is it just from repeated heat cycling?

Also what would you suggest as a rad replacement? Is there a Becool rad or something similar that is roughly the stock rad's dimensions but cools to 800hp?

BTW Pauls car is an aluminum block not iron guys.

I think a cam change and some tubing changes will make a big difference. I would also like to see Paul move the intercooler to the nose and away from the rad like Rob has in his shop car.

Cheers,
Chris

ps- Rob you know as well as I do that Pauls car would be a LOW 10 second car at over 130mph with a 400 and brake. He is making NO boost off the line and the car drops a bit of boost on all four shifts. Plus the best sixty is something like a 1.68 on ET streets at 3800 pounds. I wouldnt say its a turd

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Any pictures of Warbird's motor on the web?

FWIW you need to keep the stock gap between the radiator and the front shroud otherwise the car can run hot all the time.

With my setup we have been seeing 167F engine temps after 25 minutes of idling.

SS00Blue

None of this really holds water if one remembers the majority of kits DO NO HAVE THESE PROBLEMS!

Remember, only one misinformed, extremely poor tuner, and one victim of lousy mechanics have experienced trouble, but they seem to get all the press here. Of course, I'm leaving out one other individual, but he seems to be a result of exaggeration and poor mechanical ability. This still leaves a vast, VAST majority of kit owners that don't experience these problems.

C'Mon guys, grab a clue from the clue bag! These two guys couldn't spin a wrench or diagnose a failure to save their *******.

Paul CAN'T produce a real reason, he only spewed the same crap he did before his lackluster hired wrenches found the overheating issue. Someone hit it previously: Paul can't suck in his pride long enough to admit the schmoes he paid so handsomely are incompetent, and so he seems as well.

Go ahead... claim what you will, but the fact is that NO ONE but Paul and the mouseketeer are so poor at the hobby as to fail miserably and blame it on the supplier. I live it every day with DCX and their Viper. Ah, to be in my 20s again, and have the world so figured out... One day in their 40s they'll see the truth, if their pride allows.

Blind pride does not allow for intelligent change!

SC-

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

warbird. best of luck from a consumer's point of view... i back your comments 100%. also let me know if you're considering throwing that kit away before the new year...and no i don't want it.. lol!

White_Hawk

iTrader: (3)

So how many kits are out there? Under thirty, then I think there is a problem. Under twenty, then I would call it a major problem. What exactly is the "majority" you are referring too?

-Geoff

Black LS1 T/A

I disagree that if two kits out of thirty have severe performance problems, that there is a design flaw. That's bogus. If less than 7% of the customers have such a rotten time, I go along with an install problem being a distinct possibility. How in the world can 28 guys have a decent running FI setup and two fail so miserably? And if they aren't willing to conference with the vendor and manufacturer, then they don't want to solve the problem or set the record straight.

Does the kit have issues? Could be. I can come up with problems in every bolt-on FI kit. As much as I love my ATI, it has issues.

You guys should buy a showroom car and leave it like it came. You do not have what it takes to stay in the FI game. I may have problems that leave me scratching my head, but you don't see me bashing ATI every time I have problems... I talk to the vendor, I talk to mechanics, I post on the forums and I beat my head against the wall until I get it solved.

There... I've said it.

(...blue, your tone is still over the top. Say what you feel, but don't insult people, please.)

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

Warbird-

-The cam you have should carry you to far higher power levels. IMO, you don't need anything bigger.

-3in crossover would be a step in the wrong direction.

-While your radiator 'may' be insufficient, from the problems you describe (overheating only under power, and exhaust manifold cracking), I would take a look at your ignition timing.

Ignition timing that is too low at WOT/Boost conditions will cause EGT to skyrocket, causing overheating and cracking of the manifold.

Just throwing some ideas out there

CHRISPY

SS00Blue you certainly have a big mouth.

Any track times from your car yet?

How come I haven't seen any vids or slips from "the fastest car in Michigan" or whatever you said it was?

Until you put up some decent numbers or have something constructive to say STFU.

Paul's car is already second fastest on the list for a 6speed now.

Wait till the bigger injectors/pump, new tune and slicks are in. My guess is 10.5-10.6@133mph or better this fall at 3800 pounds raceweight.

Rob, I have no animosity towards you or your company whatsoever. I am trying to help a friend (Paul) out with his car's issues. I think the car has at least another 100-150RWHP in it and at least another half a second ET.

Chris

White_Hawk

iTrader: (3)

I am just saying, that if I was shopping for a turbo kit, and I recently was (still waiting for the phone call to pick it up in fact), that spending $7000 with a 7% chance of major problems is too high for me. I didn't say there was a design problem either, I still don't know what the problem is.

I think you are right on about installation. None of the kits that Rob installs have any problems. That seems to be a fact as far as I can tell.

-Geoff

Rob Raymer

I give up. I think that there have been enough facts stated here for everyone to draw their own conclusions.

I have offered to do whatever is necessary to fix the problem, take part in a conference call, drive half way to Canada to pick up Warbird's car, etc., etc. If that's not enough, I can do no more.

Chris - I feel as though you have done nothing but try to be helpful to both me and Paul. You have always reserved judgement and I thank you for that.

There are many others who have supported us and apparently some who didn't, but now do. I also thank those people.

Tim Eger here at our shop has been working EXTREMELY hard on a C5 Twin Turbo kit. It is almost ready to release in fact. However, none of us ever dreamed that releasing a turbo kit could have possibly been this frustrating or damaging to our business. We really anticipated a high level of support, but apparently that's just not possible to the degree we had hoped. I seriously doubt that after all I've had to go through, we will even bother.

Not that most people will care, but we have yet to make ONE PENNY on the turbo kits. Believe it or not, that is an absolute FACT. Which only adds to my hours upon hours of frustration.

It was so much easier when we just sold airlids...

Jammer

iTrader: (1)

Rob Raymer

JamMasterJ - Maybe you should have held back after all. Because you have apparently not followed any of the facts posted. Just another perfect example of what I said in my last post.

What the hell does that mean?? How has he "helped"?? He doesn't even drive his own car! Much less work on it. He still hasn't posted his "fix" to HIS overheating problem (which NOBODY ELSE HAS!), despite the fact that this thread has now reached nearly 40 posts. And all I have been asking for from the beginning was an answer to that question! And so have many others.

I didn't realize that because I am a "business man" that I am not allowed to "speak my mind". Heaven forbid. This crap has been going on for months, and last week was the first time I have actually ever spoken my mind. I've held back long enough in my opinion. Sorry, that's just me.

Rob Raymer

I'll make this so simple a 1st grader can understand the question:

1.) Warbird - You said you fixed your overheating problem. True or False?

Hint: 2.) Warbird - You said you know EXACTLY what the problem was. True or False?

3.) Warbird - So EXACTLY what was the problem?

For the life of me, I STILL cannot find his answer to this question in ANY of his posts! But I have now read in THREE different threads that he has fixed it!

So, PLEASE JUST ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS! This thread could have otherwise been closed nearly 24 hours ago.