Rob Raymer

This is not meant to start a flame. But I would really like to hear what the cause of your overheating problem was? You publicly stated in multiple threads, and emphatically, that our Turbo kit was causing it. And then most recently, you said that you found out the actual cause, and it no longer overheats. But you failed to tell everyone what it was.

I feel it is only fair that since we were originally to blame, we should all get to hear your findings. If it is a problem of our kit, then we need to address it as well. If not, then I would love to hear why you chose to omit your findings with everyone?? Especially since you were SO pissed when you thought our kit was causing it.

Still anxiously waiting...

WS6_KID

02BlueFirehawk

What I've seen with my car, with stock bottom end, was no over heating. Intercooler is mounted in front of radiator as per directions, tranny cooler is mounted away from both along the bumper frame. Sometimes simple crap like air in the coolant can cause problems. I dunno...

Just my 2 cents.

Rob Raymer

Warbird - Just wanted to put up a few of your quotes about how our kit made your car run hot...just to refresh your memory:

As far as I know, that statement was false then, and still false now. As I know of NOBODY else who has a problem with overheating, except you.

...getting more anxious by the moment to hear why your car was running hot...was it REALLY the turbo???

The answer is still yes. Which is why I brought this up in the first place. Just wasnted to hold you to your word, since you seemed to avoid stating the overheating cause in all of your last posts.

If that doesn't refresh your memory, there are plenty more of your posts bashing us I can dig up.

SS00Blue

01 SS Jay

This should be interesting.

Rob Raymer

ttt...still waiting...

Black LS1 T/A

OK.. valid question... even if a bit abrasive.

Let's give him a minute to answer.

An admission of what the problem was without an "I told you so" waiting in the wings will go a long way in vindicating your position without it seeming that both of you are wallowing in the mud.

If he doesn't respond, we'll assume you are correct in assessing that he was incorrect about the heating issue being the Turbo kit and is unwilling to admit it.

Crunch

HAHA! Hey where did you get that "popcorn" graemlin??!! Can we add it to this site???

Rob Raymer

Fair enough assessment. Patiently waiting...

Warbird

Ok I'll start here. The new thread was abrasive and is indeed intended to cause yet again another flame war. Your wording was well chosen to drag me in to this so here I am.

The problem is indeed the turbo kit and I have solved the issue. Unfortunately the problem can not be fixed as it is, only band-aided. I have had to go to great lengths to get the car to run cool and it now does. With spirited driving, the car can still get quitey hot, but a cool down criuse will allow the heat to disapte. At least I can drive it

Rob,

Lets adress a few things:

You posted this entire thread on Sept 19, 2003, four days later you post this:

You really expect me to believe this is not flame bait, get real that was exactly your intention. I find it strange that you feel some need to be vindicated. If I go back I can probably find six or seven times that you have asked the same question. Why is that Rob, do you know something that your not telling? I have had the car to a couple of turbo shops and had it closely checked out. If I tell you what the problem is will you fix it at no charge at your expense. I think you already know the answer is not a chance, and will argue the point to no resolution once again. Here's a hint, What's different about my car than the others you are so fond of beating me over the head with, and why would it matter to your kit design?

Actually, Chris Pippy was the one to tell me about the exhaust long before you ever did. The decision to remove the BB Tri-Flow was done before we even talked, the cut-out was done two days later. The Triflow is now gone and the car runs through a MagnaFlow on the street. Not only was the exhaust killing HP, it was killing the engine as well. I have had to weld the tubing on my car because the clamps won't hold.

This kind of says it all to me Rob, you don't give a **** and even though I am running a car with a kit designed by you, you still take pleasure in degrading it. Kinda looks bad on you as well. BTW on our own little boosted list, I still have the second fastest T56 car. The list is not truly indicitave of the whole turbo community but you wouldn't be the fastest on that list either. Even you should know that stick cars and auto cars (like yours) run differently, I can't leave in boost, you can.

I have no intention of playing this game any further. Rob you are arrogant to the point you can't listen to any one's view point and I don't plan on continuing. You have my phone number you could have called me to ask, but you choose to continue to do this in public, fine by me. As I look back on this post I realize in a round about way I actually have answered the question, but what the heck I'll leave it as is.

squirrel masta

even though i dont have a car anymore my qmp kit will look awsome on my bed room floor,but i still want to hear the answer so my rug wont get too hot

Crunch

I still don't understand what is "the problem" that is causing the overheating. Specifically, what is it? You can't just say "the turbo kit". Thats like saying my engine is overheating because of "the vortech." What specifically is causing the overheating (e.g. faulty radiator, faulty intercooler, etc)?? I would like to know for my own knowledge, if its not too much trouble. I read and re-read this post, and I still don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something.

WS6_KID

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

I agree.

Warbird swallow your pride.

Rob Raymer

So, since I'm not the only person who can't seem to find your answer in this quote, does that mean that we are all missing it? Doubtful...my guess, as usual you are avoiding the question.

I think I have already answered this. In fact, I was the made who originally made the offer to fix your car. As evidenced by my post below from our previous internet debate:

Obviously, I was on target then with that statement, and it still holds true today. All you have to do is tell all of us what the actual overheating problem is being caused by! How hard is that???

REALLY?? Is that what you call it?

90% of the reason I was so willing to fix your car FREE, was because I was so embarrassed at how slow your car is with a 417ci motor and our turbo kit! After all of the negative things you've said about me and our kit publicly, how can you possibly expect me to keep biting my tongue?? I have taken more senseless, unfounded crap from you (and a few others) than ANYONE else would take. Not to mention the amount of damage you've done to the credibilty of our kit. Or at least that's how I see it.

Warbird

OK Rob, I'll give this one more chance to see if we can bury the hatchet. I'll spell out the finding and you'll be surprised to hear that I still think your base kit is great, perhaps you need to consider the special tuner kit for bigger motors, wouldn't cost a whole lot more. and will make tons of power. Please allow me to provied some literary back up first. If you can refrain from quoting in everthing the past I'll do the same and try to lay out how this all came to pass. This is a compilation of a number of well respected opinions, knowledeable about turbo's and engines.

Perhaps we can come to some kind of mutually acceptable resolution in this matter

My engine was built top to bottom by ARE for boost, low compression, forged internals with a bigger displacement etc, the goal was to be make great streetable power across a broad range without sacrificing the normal comforts ( a race car with a radio ). I had considered a supercharger but with the problems they were having at the time a turbo kit seemed like a better and yes cooler approach to take. The QMP turbo kit for the most part had all the right stuff we were looking for. I'll say it again the parts are excellent quality, you do need to work on the installation instructions. I finally got the kit and had it installed at ARE for the most part it wasn't that hard and with realatively minor adjustments it all fit togther. This car was meant from day one to be capable of being a daily driver and as of now it has 9,000 kms on the motor and turbo, 18,000 kms on the motor alone. I know you had a bigger motor as well but your intended purpose was diiferent than mine and it's usage was also different.

The turbo is as it was intended. The motor has been proven to be free of problems such as you suggested. Everthing you said you had wrong with your car was checked out on mine to be sure. The fundamental problem my car has is a mismatch from turbo kit to motor. I displace too much, to run efficiently with the kit as it sits. There is only one fix to solve the problem permantly or buy stock in Band-aid.

Here are the problems and I have since discovered they are actually directly linked to one another. BTW this is how the problem was finally figured out.

1\ Exhaust scavenges oil from the turbo - Band-aid fix, add scavening pump. Result, problem goes away
2\ My car runs hot - Band-aid fix - replace rad with SLP unit also add Tow Cool to rad - Result, car is cooler but still gets hot
3\ My car runs hot - Band-aid fix - replace passenger manifold with Mac Header - Result, car drops 15* under normal running, picks up 60 HP, however car still get hot under heavy load (this is important)
4\ Too much back pressure - Fix- Replace BB Triflow with Magnaflow install cut-out - Result, under normal driving car has finally dropped to 190* normal, car picked up 4 mph and 4\10 ths in the quarter
5\ Exhaust cross-over blew off -Band-aid fix weld middle split re-install wrap tube into manifold with header wrap and re-seal. Result - no more leaks in the cross-over
6\ Log manifold beginning to crack at number 3 port - Not fixed yet, another exhaust leak, nice ticking noise
7\ Recently dicovered more cracks in the manifold - This is where it became obvious where the heat generation and overheating was actually coming from.

There were othe issues but those are the main symptoms leading to finding the problem.

In lay terms, because I would have a hard time translating the way these guys use technospeak. They talked a ton about VE and such.

The cross-over and log manifold are the problem for my application., they are simply too small for the engine. My exhaust velocity and volume are much higher than a stock displacement motor and the gases are in fact backing up heavilly under load. This is why we blew off the cross-over, cracked the manifold and keep popping parts. Under load at 4500 rpm and up there is a vibration and resonance in the exhaust and engine, that is gases backing up and generating heat. Now that the tubing is welded it will begin to hurt the motor and the turbo by forcing both to work harder, my seals are already starting to go. This is why my car heats up under any load. I have put a band-aid on the problem but have not fixed it.

The cross-over needs to be a minimum of 3" into a 3" log, the "headerlets" from the drivers side manifold need to be canted forward. That of course would require a brand new manifold. If you remember, when I put the Mac header on the car picked up a ton of power and began to cool off, that's because the exhaust had more room to flow, same thing with the cut out and Magnaflow. The boost spike problem would also go away with this fix.

Another issue related to power is the car is definitely under cammed as it sits. problem is bigger might make matters worse again. A big exhaust duration cam that allows the exhaust to escape might help, but a bigger intake will once again feed more gas. Damn!

There you have it, I have a big displacement FI motor with a mis-matched kit. I AM NOT SLAMMING THE QMP KIT IN THIS POST IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. I need to fix the kit which would be benificial to QMP and myself or find another solution.

Just to finish off, those smaller motors with the QMP kit will kick some serious ***, my car has the potential but needs to be sorted out.

Rob, I've answered the best I can here in straight reserved manner, I have not said one derogatory remark or one slam. The kit and motor can work very well together, but today they are mis-matched. What would you suggest as the next step?

Paul

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

WOW

Warbird

Just to add to my post because I didn't re-iterate for others.

The motor is 415 CID 4.060" bore X 4.000" stroke with ductile iron Darton dry sleeves. The heat transfer of these sleeves is superioir to the stock iron sleeves. The cam is 228/228 573/573 114.

I can understand the design limits of the 2 1/2" OD crossover for fit, however a 3" with a scrape shield can be made to work. My car rides at stock height.

As to the initail design of the kit I realize it could not be fit on every style of car. I had to also remove my power steering cooler so everything would fit, my cruise is re-located as well.

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

Paul

Crunch

Warbird, I think now I understand your dilemma, ableit I have no idea how to solve it. I believe Black LS1 T/A had a similar overheating issue with his 422 iron block (although he's got a blower, not a turbo). Perhaps now, the two of you along with Rob can combine knowledge and develop a future solution for LS1 iron-clad cubic inches and boost. I'm sure we would all appreciate it. It just seems odd that this particluar issue could not have been addressed and brainstormed much sooner rather than later.