squirrel masta

if loosing my car and almost being killed last week is bad enough now i have to stay up passed my bed time and read the suspense all i have to say is that after my accident i realized life can be too short noone or nothing is perfect i think rob is doing a great job of handling all of this and i give him big time props and i think warbird has everyright to be mad about it when i get my kit if i have the same problems i wouldnt be happy either but i would make 100% sure that the problem is the kit and if it was i would tell rob exactly what i found. all im saying is because somthing is not perfect it doesnt mean rob is an ******* or because warbird is having problems it doesnt mean he is one either i just hate seing all this crap going on here i think we should all just cyber hug and try to get along and solve all problems in a tech speaking helpful manner just my two cents even though it probably really doesnt matter

Warbird

Rob,

I said I was willing to bury the hatchet, however you decided to make another personal attack. I do drive my own car, just because Chris was able to run faster than me doesn't mean I can't drive it. Why do feel it nessecary to continue to drag this dow n to a personal level? In every post you have made you have taken a personal shot. I will not lower myself to that level.

I posted 7 related issues that I have had with the car and you decided to break them down to individual items and try to make them sound independant of one another. You are ignoring the facts of the issue. That's fine because I believe you never expected me to answer your question, you do seem to be the only one that can't see that I layed out the problem, explained how I bandaided and finally how it has to be fixed.

I did everything you asked, my head gaskets are on right, everything is sealed up tight. I even leaked down the motor. You keep pointing to the motor and the only thing I haven't done yet is pulled it out of the car. Every accessable component has been checked including the heads.

Once again you insist on saying no other car has my problem, please tell me how many large displacement engines have the QMP turbo kit? How many are on stock engines and how many are on highly modified ones?

I am sorry this didn't turn into a flame fest for you, if it does I will walk away from it. At it's current pace I will continue to answer questions in the hopes that something positive will come of this.

INTMD8,

I will look more closely at the timing, however I believe at WOT it is running at 24*. I have no false or real knock and the A/F is good. What kind of suggestions would you make here. Perhaps some tuning ideas might actually help.

I am interested to hear why you don't feel a bigger cross-over would benefit my car, it sounds like you might have some input into this.

Warbird

It does to me, very very true words. I hope you are alright, cars are things, lives are precious.

Thank you for interjecting some perspective.

Keep well

Paul

02BlueFirehawk

I think he answered that the large displacement and thus the large amounts of exhaust and backpressure of his motor was the root cause of his problems. Thus not any fault in particular of the kit. I would assume most of the kits are installed like mine on a stock displacement motor and/or w/ stock internals, thus odds are you will not see the problem he is having.

...hey SS00Blue, if you've got nothing worth saying, I suggest you dont say anything. Your post above has no value and this does nothing here but stir the pot.

Rob Raymer

Still you have not answered the question!!! HOW DID YOU FIX THE OVERHEATING PROBLEM???? That is all I want to know. HOW FRIGGIN' HARD IS THAT??

And you are WRONG! NOBODY can see how you fixed the problem. Although now I see in your next to last post that you explained "how it has to be fixed". Which is ENTIRELY different from your other postings where you claimed that it HAS BEEN fixed. Isn't it? So either you really did fix it, but you are afraid to tell everyone how....OR....you lied and never really fixed it. So which is it?

Bottom line...you ARE the only person who has this problem. ARE ordered a "TUNER KIT" for your car, THEY installed it, THEY built your motor, THEY installed it, THEY tuned it, THEY tightened the clamps that fell off, THEY sold you the SLP radiator, so why is the problem MY fault?? I'm the only person who didn't make any money on you!

How is this logical?

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Make the vette turbo kit I'll buy one for my Z06.I see no end to the back and forth bitching.Personally I would trailer the car to Rob and have him figure it out.I'm thinking he would like to see what is going on also.Both you guys are intelligent enough to come up with a way to do this,please do so.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Damn!!! This has totally got out of hand.. I have a few questions... What was the tuner kit designed for? Has it been tested on larger than 370ci setups? Where are the #'s of the other tuner kits? Actually, where are the rest of the regular kit #'s? I read this board and the other boards religiously. I hear of kits going on, but never see any #'s. I know locally several people planned on purchasing the QMP kit, but backed down once news of install issues and tuning problems arised. The kit looks awesome, but I have not been convinced that it can be installed by a local installer and produce 600rwhp/650rwtq w/out any issues. The last thing consumers want to do is purchase a constant bill. Its a kit. Not a car where you pay a downpayment and then you pay installments until you sell it.. Whether there are issues or not. We need to see more people install the kit on their own and post of some good #'s with the tuner kit and the regular kit. Shop cars do not count..

CHRISPY

Rob,
What RWHP do you think Pauls Turbo can support with his current motor displacement? His heads also flow very well. I looked at the compressor map but I still have some questions on it.
thanks,
Chris

ps- Paul is actually a good driver. He doesn't like to powershift however and with the six speed and turbo this is very important to minimize boost drop on shifts.

Also Paul has been in contact with various turbo engineers from the big manufacturers for advice concerning his issues as well.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I see no reason to call around the industry for tech support on Warbird's setup... Just talk to Rob.

I would not ignore input from Intd8 either, look at his sig, I have seen his tank trap mid 130's quite a few times, and he's not leaving on boost either the way you put it Chris, Jim is a T56 on drag radials... From what I am seeing Paul's car is making about 550-600rwhp to run high 10's on a 1.6 short time.

I don't see why Paul does not simply answer the question about whether the car still overheats.

I will admit I am a little frustrated at this thread. I will also say that whenever I see someone fiddling with a tuner kit the cars seem to have issues and the owners tend to be very negative. You got hooked up at a cheaper price, and were allowed to buy the kit without a fuel system and other parts, I don't think you should bitch. Making the car work is NOT the time when you call a million people, talk to the designer and nobody else.

Good luck to all.

CHRISPY

There is nothing wrong with using the resources available to you for advice. It is actually a good idea.

Rob Raymer

I thought saying it was a Tuner kit made it self-explanatory. Apparently not. You pick the turbo you want, you supply the tuning and fuel system yourself. That's it.

Many of the people who purchased Tuner Kits have yet to install them. They are building engines, chassis's, etc. Others just don't want to get into this debate publicly. They have no issues, or obviously they would post. I have answered this AT LEAST 5 times now.

Do a search. We have posted dyno numbers as well as MANY others. We have no responsibility to force our customers to post their numbers. Off the top of my head, a few that have posted:
Shawn Stewart
John Roosa
SS00Blue
Mightymouse
Jonathan Boss
'02BlueFirehawk
...and I KNOW there are more, but that's all I can think of right now. I can think of MANY more that WON'T post...EVER. How many do you need??

Exactly my point. People who backed down because of only TWO people who had minor issues with "TUNER" kits. Most NOT related to our kit at all, and all of which I was willing to repair anyway.

Why? Are you thinking about buying a kit? If so, why do you need to see OTHER people install and tune it first? How many will it take to convince you that the problem is with the installer and tuner, rather than the manufacturer??
And why wouldn't shop cars count? Do you think we have access to something everyone else doesn't?? We use Ed Wright to tune our cars (as well as customer's), and other than that, we just install the kits PROPERLY. That's it.

I would guess it could easily max out the T74 at 900fwhp (or roughly 775rwhp). FWIW, we have a local Mustang here (Chris Ridge) that runs a 101mm PTE turbo with 1 3/4" primaries, into a 2 1/2" log, with a 2 1/2" crossover. It makes 2000fwhp on an engine dyno and just ran a 4.59 @ 163 in the 1/8 mile. So I REALLY doubt that Warbird is maxing out his log or the crossover. I just don't know where people get these ideas that you need a 3" crossover or 3" log. What you need is velocity to spool the turbo.

Shawn's car was NEVER powershifted, shifted at 5200rpm's (due to bad valve springs), ran at 7lbs of boost, and still went 11.44 @ 126. So again, Warbird definitely has other issues in my opinion taht are keeping him from running like it should.

White_Hawk

iTrader: (3)

I think he said what he did to address the problem, whether or not it is fixed I think is still what is unknown. The MAC header dropped him by 15 degrees and he got the SLP rad. I know, Rob, that you deny this to be possible, but unless Warbird lied about it (which I see absolutely no reason for or benefit to him by doing it), I think we should all accept it as a fact.

How many turbo kits do you have on large displacement daily driver cars? You haven't answered that yet.

-Geoff

Black LS1 T/A

Who cares if QMP had input into what hte heating problem was if it was not the Turbo that was the problem?

The point of the post is, what was the problem?

Since Warbird knows "exactly what the problem was now", why won't he tell us?

Chris, do you know... perhaps you can tell us?
Warbird has written a lot of words but not answered that question; it should take only a few sentences to say.

If it can't or won't be said, it appears Warbird just won't own up to the fact that he unjustly blamed the Turbo for his cooling issues.

Black LS1 T/A

Geoff, what I'm saying is, if the reason 7% failures occur is the installation, you have zero reason to avoid purchasing that kit unless you anticipate installation problems as well.

Rob Raymer

And you also apparently cannot understand this. He has ALREADY said that he FIXED the overheating. I even pasted his quote in THIS THREAD!
Secondly, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for a MAC passenger header to reduce his temperature at all. Otherwise, please explain how it's possible.

He already had the SLP radiator when he originally posted that his car was overheating. If you had been following this Topic all along, you would have known that.

He apparently DID lie about it, otherwise he would have answered the question LONG AGO! Even the owner of LS1Tech can't find his answer in any of his jibberish!

I personally know of only 3. Mine was a daily driver when I had the 375 ARE engine in the car. It's still a daily driver with a smaller cube motor, a ton more more HP, and doesn't EVER overheat. Warbird's is the largest ci engine that I know of with our kit.

Regardless, what does that have to do with me? Do I have to test every possible engine combination before I release a turbo kit?? Why is the burden on ME and not the person who selects his parts, builds and tunes his car???

Again...WHAT LOGICAL SENSE DOES ANY OF THAT MAKE???????????????????????????

Rob Raymer

THANK GOD! That is EXACTLY what I have been saying from the beginning! Why is it that Warbird and his support group can't understand that???

This thread would have never gotten to the point it is if he would have simply answered the question to begin with. Period.

Black LS1 T/A

Exactly why people unjustly blaming the kit for their woes is wrong and foul to the company and a disservice to the rest of us who want companies to continue R&D'ing performance products for the rest of us.

Vince if someone buys a tuner kit, it's on them to make it work.
To buy out cheap with a tuner kit and then expect the manufacturer to finish putting your kit together successfully may be the scam artist's way of getting over, but can't seriously be considered by intelligent, fair-minded people as a legitimate way to outfit one's car with an FI system, now can it?

If a local shop does not specialize in installing and tuning turbos (or any other FI for that matter), I surely would not expect them to engineer a TUNER kit. They should only be installing the base kit with the manufacturer tested configuration.

For someone to install a Tuner kit means they have enough expertise to customize the setup.

When I got my Stage II D-1SC from Golden West Performance, I didn't look to ATI to make it work; GWP located all the Stage II components and communicated with ME on how to put it together. I interfaced with GWP with issues concerning install and performance. I only called ATI when a part was missing (I still should have called GWP, but was trying to take a short-cut when a piece from the actual ATI kit was wrong).

Does anyone get this, yet?

SS00Blue

Yup! Some of us do. Thanks for the much needed assessment!

SC-

<font color="red">HEY ROB! You've got a PM. <!--color--></font>

CHRISPY

I am not exactly sure what the final diagnosis was on the cooling. My initial thoughts were rad and intercooler placement combined with exhaust restriction and high underhood heat from the turbo.
The intercooler placement still bothers me. I know there isn't really anywhere else to put it but I really would like Paul to remove his front bumper support and place the cooler in the nose of the car. This would return airflow around the rad to stock levels and help a ton IMO.

Rob Raymer

Thanks for the input Chris. I understand your position. However, I am simply reading Warbird's above statement, and it still seems to read to me that the problem is IN FACT fixed. It does not say that he KNOWS HOW TO FIX IT.

This is the only clarification I have been asking for since the beginning. I think the answer is obvious.