A solution for big power cars with no factory traction control!
12-02-2008, 08:13 AM
#1
A solution for big power cars with no factory traction control! I didn't get traction control on my 99 ta and with my new combo of the twin turbos and built 408 was a big depressed over not having it.
After reading that it seems installing the factory setup would be huge pain and big money came across this that looks like its might do the job even comes with optional two step type of thing .
Anybody run it ? I might be pioneer on it.
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control
After reading that it seems installing the factory setup would be huge pain and big money came across this that looks like its might do the job even comes with optional two step type of thing .
Anybody run it ? I might be pioneer on it.
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control
12-02-2008, 08:45 AM
#5
So you guys dont' have traction control options either on your cars?
Of course you control boost with your right foot basically and can set up boost progressive with my eboost2 supposedly its not installed yet but seriously you can still get those tires spinning away with just a bit of inattention especially as the roads get colder. Car is put away for winter now but even in fall or spring the roads get pretty cold around here and traction gets hard to come by. I am running nittos and didn't really want to run et street radials full time but might do that too next season.
I thought this gizmo might work good seen reviews on it now with some turbo cars and the owners seemed to really like it.
Of course you control boost with your right foot basically and can set up boost progressive with my eboost2 supposedly its not installed yet but seriously you can still get those tires spinning away with just a bit of inattention especially as the roads get colder. Car is put away for winter now but even in fall or spring the roads get pretty cold around here and traction gets hard to come by. I am running nittos and didn't really want to run et street radials full time but might do that too next season.
I thought this gizmo might work good seen reviews on it now with some turbo cars and the owners seemed to really like it.
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12-02-2008, 09:06 AM
#9
This thing is used on 1000 hp turbo vipers and reading something about the fuel cut that it dont' hurt the turbo cars because of the way it works..
Looking at the prices if person didn't want the launch option it didn't look that bad. pounds are 1.5 roughly to conver to dollars. And install didn't look that hard either in the instructions. No worse than learning to use hptuners or installing my aps twin kit..
Looking at the prices if person didn't want the launch option it didn't look that bad. pounds are 1.5 roughly to conver to dollars. And install didn't look that hard either in the instructions. No worse than learning to use hptuners or installing my aps twin kit..
12-02-2008, 09:20 AM
#12
Ok lots of good info on their technical section.
Here is why it don't hurt boosted cars and again its being used on 1000 hp vipers and yeah if you add all the options it gets expensive but the stripped down box dont' seem too bad and you can add the digital gizmo at any time. We spend thousands on our boosted up builds so whats another 1000 or so. Cheaper than crashing the car.
and I am not worried as much for me driving it as for my crazy speed freak brother!
Fuel Cut
The idea of cutting fuel to an engine sets alarm bells ringing in engine builders, as they all know of the potential disaster of a high revving race engine running lean. Running in a lean combustion mode will elevate in-cylinder temperatures very rapidly, the denser the air/fuel charge, the more heat the lean burn can generate. Therefore it is vital that a fuel cut system will not cause a lean burn.
The simplest way of preventing a lean burn is to remove more than 50% of the fuel from the pulsed delivery. A mixture will only ignite if the air/fuel ratio is within a tightly defined window, look at the efforts being put into making lean burn engines fire on very low air/fuel ratios (1:20 or more). Removing more than 50% of the fuel will cause an air fuel ratio of over 1:25 and will result in a complete miss-fire, with the unburned fuel passing out through the exhaust valve. Even if a high air/fuel ratio did manage to ignite, the energy available from the amount of petrol injected wouldn't be enough to elevate temperatures significantly. Of course the ideal system will remove 100% of the pulsed fuel delivery, allowing the cylinder to take a gulp of fresh air, and the in-cylinder temperature would remain virtually unaffected. Racelogic Traction Control operates in this manner - the complete injector pulse is removed so no possibility of lean burn can exist.
Prolonged fuel cut on one particular cylinder would cause scavenging of the petrol lining the inlet tracts, and when the next full fuel pulse arrived, it would be partially reduced in quantity by the re-wetting of these tracts. Therefore it is often important to manage a rotation of the cylinder cutting to prevent this situation from occurring.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spark Cut
Cutting the spark to an engine will stop any chances of a weak mixture occurring, but it carries it's own potential problems due to a large quantity of unburned fuel travelling through the cylinder and out of the exhaust. This petrol can remove some of the oil lining the inside of the cylinder, and pass it thorough the exhaust, again this only becomes a problem if the fuel to one particular cylinder is cut for an extended time. The best way to overcome this is to rotate the order in which the cylinders are cut.
The unburned fuel in the exhaust will have a catastrophic affect if there is a catalytic converter in the exhaust, as it will try to convert the unburned fuel to harmless elements, effectively burning the mixture. This causes the catalytic converter to heat up very rapidly, reaching temperatures in excess of 1000°C, and possibly melting down completely. Thus prolonged spark cut is not recommended for catalytic equipped cars.
Here is why it don't hurt boosted cars and again its being used on 1000 hp vipers and yeah if you add all the options it gets expensive but the stripped down box dont' seem too bad and you can add the digital gizmo at any time. We spend thousands on our boosted up builds so whats another 1000 or so. Cheaper than crashing the car.
and I am not worried as much for me driving it as for my crazy speed freak brother!
Fuel Cut
The idea of cutting fuel to an engine sets alarm bells ringing in engine builders, as they all know of the potential disaster of a high revving race engine running lean. Running in a lean combustion mode will elevate in-cylinder temperatures very rapidly, the denser the air/fuel charge, the more heat the lean burn can generate. Therefore it is vital that a fuel cut system will not cause a lean burn.
The simplest way of preventing a lean burn is to remove more than 50% of the fuel from the pulsed delivery. A mixture will only ignite if the air/fuel ratio is within a tightly defined window, look at the efforts being put into making lean burn engines fire on very low air/fuel ratios (1:20 or more). Removing more than 50% of the fuel will cause an air fuel ratio of over 1:25 and will result in a complete miss-fire, with the unburned fuel passing out through the exhaust valve. Even if a high air/fuel ratio did manage to ignite, the energy available from the amount of petrol injected wouldn't be enough to elevate temperatures significantly. Of course the ideal system will remove 100% of the pulsed fuel delivery, allowing the cylinder to take a gulp of fresh air, and the in-cylinder temperature would remain virtually unaffected. Racelogic Traction Control operates in this manner - the complete injector pulse is removed so no possibility of lean burn can exist.
Prolonged fuel cut on one particular cylinder would cause scavenging of the petrol lining the inlet tracts, and when the next full fuel pulse arrived, it would be partially reduced in quantity by the re-wetting of these tracts. Therefore it is often important to manage a rotation of the cylinder cutting to prevent this situation from occurring.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spark Cut
Cutting the spark to an engine will stop any chances of a weak mixture occurring, but it carries it's own potential problems due to a large quantity of unburned fuel travelling through the cylinder and out of the exhaust. This petrol can remove some of the oil lining the inside of the cylinder, and pass it thorough the exhaust, again this only becomes a problem if the fuel to one particular cylinder is cut for an extended time. The best way to overcome this is to rotate the order in which the cylinders are cut.
The unburned fuel in the exhaust will have a catastrophic affect if there is a catalytic converter in the exhaust, as it will try to convert the unburned fuel to harmless elements, effectively burning the mixture. This causes the catalytic converter to heat up very rapidly, reaching temperatures in excess of 1000°C, and possibly melting down completely. Thus prolonged spark cut is not recommended for catalytic equipped cars.
12-02-2008, 11:39 AM
#14
Traction control is for people who have zero business behind the wheel of a 400 HP car, let alone 1000 HP.
If you really "need" traction control and can't learn how to drive, use something like the MSD product that just pulls timing to lower HP and reduce slippage. Its outlawed in most DR classes AFAIK, but could work for others. Its a much safer and less violent way to do it.
If you really "need" traction control and can't learn how to drive, use something like the MSD product that just pulls timing to lower HP and reduce slippage. Its outlawed in most DR classes AFAIK, but could work for others. Its a much safer and less violent way to do it.
12-02-2008, 12:10 PM
#15
My car is equipped with factory traction control, but I built a circuit to disable it 3 seconds after start up so I don't forget (embarassing in the burnout box). The only time factory traction control is useful is if you get caught in the rain on a treadless tire, other than that it's completely useless. I can turn traction control on and get into boost spinning the tires and the traction control just says "I give up" and doesn't do a thing.
As every has said, learn to modulate your right foot, it works the best and cheapest.
As every has said, learn to modulate your right foot, it works the best and cheapest.
12-02-2008, 01:06 PM
#17
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Here is the thing with the factory traction control on the f-body. Its not a very advanced system at all,it just detect wheel spin and closes the throttle blade. You can easily do that with you foot. Now if was a newer system that applies the brakes along with decreasing throttle that might be worth it.
12-02-2008, 04:00 PM
#19
Wow you guys are pretty harsh..LOL I was breaking in my new engine on cold roads and that wasn't helping much either. As said while I might not be a bad driver and have had many very high hp cars in the old days..I am an old guy not a 20 year old guy..50 to be exact. Still worry when have to let crazy speed freak brother and maybe his kids drive it. I have no choice as he lets me use and drive his toys..speed boat etc.. He loves my ta and likes to top end it! That was pre 408 and pre turbo.. Yeah 170mph several times.
I know he should grow up! And he is a lawyer! He will need to be when he gets caught doing 170mph and bet my car can hit 200mph with the 408 and turbos. Feels like it could take off and fly away.
But seriously that traction control mentioned seems like it could be a good thing. Turbo cars are tricky sometimes. You get a bit more spool up here or there from a bit more throttle and you spin the suckers off. Its harder to modulate a turbo car than NA or super usually .That bit of lag means you have to think into the future a bit more. I used to have a turbo motorbike and that really was like that. Fact seen many of the same bikes at wreckers always front end crashed. The riders had hit cars in front it was easy to do if you were not paying 100% attention and thinking ahead far enough.I never crashed mine.
I had ride in buddies c5 with 590 rwhp cartech 447 NA and his traction and active handling stuff seemed to actually be useful.
Our realize our factory f body traction control is pretty dumb type. I have it on my 96z28. Its handy in rain again depending on whos driving it. 96z28 is wifes car so its good she has the traction control. Its handy in fall and spring on the colder roads.
But this racelogic one seems to be much better than stock type being variable and pretty quick acting but not just a kicking back the pedal type. I may still give it a try at some point.
Next season will see how the new 99 beast is after I get used to it and might buy some m and h drag radials or mt drag radials and run them all season.I only put about 5000 miles a season on my car anyway. My current nittos are worn out anyway. I do have progressive boost controll with my eboost 2 as well to try out. I never had the eboost installed this season just got the combo running only month or so ago and it gets winter and cold here fast up north. It was like 25 degrees out today and lots of windchill. Not good weather to drive 408 twin turbos on worn out nittos.
If you read more on that website and here and there you will see the racelogic is much better than a simple dumb traction control and is on many high end cars. As said 1000 hp vipers are getting it so it definitely can help and even was designed to work well on turbo cars. It has that launch control two step option and a no lift to shift option.
I have the lingenfelter box for that so that wasn't a big thing to me. More interested in just the tration control.
I know he should grow up! And he is a lawyer! He will need to be when he gets caught doing 170mph and bet my car can hit 200mph with the 408 and turbos. Feels like it could take off and fly away.
But seriously that traction control mentioned seems like it could be a good thing. Turbo cars are tricky sometimes. You get a bit more spool up here or there from a bit more throttle and you spin the suckers off. Its harder to modulate a turbo car than NA or super usually .That bit of lag means you have to think into the future a bit more. I used to have a turbo motorbike and that really was like that. Fact seen many of the same bikes at wreckers always front end crashed. The riders had hit cars in front it was easy to do if you were not paying 100% attention and thinking ahead far enough.I never crashed mine.
I had ride in buddies c5 with 590 rwhp cartech 447 NA and his traction and active handling stuff seemed to actually be useful.
Our realize our factory f body traction control is pretty dumb type. I have it on my 96z28. Its handy in rain again depending on whos driving it. 96z28 is wifes car so its good she has the traction control. Its handy in fall and spring on the colder roads.
But this racelogic one seems to be much better than stock type being variable and pretty quick acting but not just a kicking back the pedal type. I may still give it a try at some point.
Next season will see how the new 99 beast is after I get used to it and might buy some m and h drag radials or mt drag radials and run them all season.I only put about 5000 miles a season on my car anyway. My current nittos are worn out anyway. I do have progressive boost controll with my eboost 2 as well to try out. I never had the eboost installed this season just got the combo running only month or so ago and it gets winter and cold here fast up north. It was like 25 degrees out today and lots of windchill. Not good weather to drive 408 twin turbos on worn out nittos.
If you read more on that website and here and there you will see the racelogic is much better than a simple dumb traction control and is on many high end cars. As said 1000 hp vipers are getting it so it definitely can help and even was designed to work well on turbo cars. It has that launch control two step option and a no lift to shift option.
I have the lingenfelter box for that so that wasn't a big thing to me. More interested in just the tration control.
