2001-WS6

HI Ray,

That's correct. I believe MM probably has the best pictures of the A2W setup. I'll check to see what I have though.

The idea is the tank is in the battery bay with the pump mounted below that to send cold water to the IC in a 1" hose. Then the hose goes from the IC into the heat exchanger with a 800-1000CFM 10" fan on that and it sits right behind the TA front plate cover for good air flow. Then the hose returns the water to the tank.

Something like the Flex-a-lite 49501 works fine for the heat exchanger task. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku I upgraded my fan from a 800cfm to a 1000cfm one that I had laying around from a transmission cooler that I had just because I had it laying around anyway.

The CO2 or NOS cooling really isn't needed for either setups. Using a good meth kit for cooling will help take the edge off even when you want to run C16 for those hot July Norwalk passes.

Rick

2001-WS6

The point you seem to fail to understand is that with a T4 flange limitation he's at the bigest turbo that fits in our spot. So at some point, you have to maximize the air to ring every last bit out of it. A2A won't ever get you as far as A2W when you get to the point of maxing out a turbo in a full weight street car. We don't need ice for the one pass that it takes to win or most likely the best of three if someone feels the need.

Rick

2001-WS6

Ray,

I'm having a problem finding my pics but here's a shot of the full kit. The A2W setups is the left side of the Race Kit picture at the middle of this page. So it shows the hoses, pump, pump, tank, IC and heat exchanger with the fan.

http://www.turbotechnologyinc.com/site/?page_id=113

The tank goes where the battery does. The IC goes in the front driverside in front of the wheel well and the IC sits in the TA plate cover mounted to the front bumper.

Adding MM's pics too which are nice: http://home.comcast.net/~deezuns/LS1_RACE.htm

Rick

otherwhitemeat

iTrader: (3)

That's funny you say that...cause I was going to call bullshit on ur claim of only 15-20 over ambient...cause I also have had BOTH set-ups on my car and have seen the effects of BOTH set-ups on two other F-bodys locally.....What is your pressure drop? I know what mine was when I switched from ATW to ATA.....on the STREET i would rather be at 75ish deg rather then 15-20 over ambient...so let me hear about your efficency...

otherwhitemeat

iTrader: (3)

Like I said you can do it with an ATA too....and when you through meth into ANY set-up..there is almost no need for an intercooler at all

otherwhitemeat

iTrader: (3)

Your missing the point....WE all know ATW is king at the track...but for a street car it is not needed......Like you said you can always add meth and save on the the ATW pluming needed.

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

my ebay air to air keeps temps at 3-4 over while cruising on the highway but rises 30-40 degrees on a track pass. that is running 12 psi....at 20psi i bet it would climb to at least 70 over ambient. the meth will generally drop it 30-40 so i net a 0-40 gain.
A2w should do better than a2a...i was just too broke to get the setup for a2w

otherwhitemeat

iTrader: (3)

I have a big griffin intercooler... the core is 30x5x19..they sell these for $1500 bucks......your ATA intercooler is too small.....

topend

Air to air on the street. very simple and effective. faster u go the more cooling capacity u get. On a 80 degree day with 50 mph winds u will put a jacket on.

fenix999

iTrader: (17)

holy **** lol no wonder its cooling lol jk nice size core man. For a true street car i vote a2a just because its so simple and maintenace free(pple dont like maintenance especially after how much work some guys have to do to their cars on a weekly basis). Air to water would be nice but not for a "simple" setup like a budget minded turbo LS1 with an A2A. With a nice A2W setup, i agree, you would be able to cool it down alot with ice etc but that probably gets old quick espeically if you're beating it around town or "having tests runs that are simulated on mexican streets"...this thread's point has almost been beaten to death and all good points for both sides have been made already....choose your destiny with either/or...it comes down to preference mostly and what you are comfortable with putting in your particular setup/car. Only upside i see to an A2W on my setup would be keeping my fog lights on my Trans Am....which is a gay and useless point but whatever to each his own....im out before i get **** thrown at me lol

Shearer

A Talon has quite a bit of room for an I/C. I guess I was trying to make the point that if you can fit an adequate air cooled I/C core on your car you will not see any negatives in comparison to a water cooled system with an air to air exchanger. As for both set-ups they need to be configured properly for the application to work right. Also i must make the disclaimer that all cores are not created equal, it's not fair to compare some china bay crap to a good Garrett core.

Shearer

I disagree here. Taking the addition of the ice out of the equation, a properly sized A/A core will do as good of a job as an air cooled liquid set-up.

Dump the junk china bay core and get a Garrett core. And make sure it's sized properly for the power you are making.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

also if done a certain way the tank hoses pump etc can be removed for non dragstrip activity to remove the clutter / weight

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

nah...i am only looking for .25 et more. Ill save my money and keep my china/meth and let you big dogs run the cool stuff

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

I use a Bell A2A core that's 23"Wx4.5"Dx6"H, with 34 vertical hot air channels and is rated 2074cfm. I have also surrounded my A2A with sheetmetal ducting to force all the air that comes through the hole in my bumper to move through the core. On a 1-mile run from a stop, my IAT only climbs 15-20 degrees, then drops to within 3-5 degrees of ambient in less than a eighth mile after I let off. I agree with otherwhitemeat - most A2A setups are either stingy on the core size or don't have great and controlled airflow, or both.

People always cite the fact that water absorbs heat 14 times faster than air. That's great for the charge side. But no one ever talks about how it make the heat shedding side 14 times slower to transition the heat back into the air. I see a couple people post that their water stays constant in temperature - they're the lucky ones and I don't know how they do it.

But in Corky Bell's books, he basically says that, with the one exception of ice-water drag racing applications, a properly sized A2A with good air throughput is the simplest, lightest and most effective way to go on a street or road racer.

Some people, it seems especially the Aussie crowd, have experimented with dry ice/salt water or dry ice/alcohol combos for the drag strip and gotten some amazingly low IAT numbers, and the coolant seems to last longer. But I haven't seen anyone doing a serious A2W with an auxilary coolant system like CO2, except the air conditioning thing someone already mentioned.

Jim

veee8

iTrader: (40)

I was playing with my car tonight and logged some IAT's. My setup is a dual Bell core a2W, a 7.6Gallon tank mounted in the rear hatch, filled with 50/50 water/antifreeze, and a Ron Davis 03-04 Cobra Heat exchanger (it is pretty big), and a Mezeire 136 pump.
It was 70* outside tonight, after sitting and heat soaking the underhood, IAT's were 125*, within 50-100 feet they dropped to 85*. Never got above 90* No real high speeds were reached, but boost was logged around 8 psi with 10.8 max. I checked the tank when I got back, the water was not warm at all. You could feel a little warmth coming out of the turbo into the IC, but everything else was cool to the touch.
On the street, this setup is going to work great, any air going over that heat exchanger knocks the temp down immediately.
At the track with ice, will be the perfect.
Does it add weight? Yes. Is the piping complex? No, the IC is V-banded right to the compressor outlet, about 3.5 feet of pipe to the TB.
With the right components that I chose, this a great street/strip setup.

otherwhitemeat

iTrader: (3)

Your set-up is very close to what I had....I just had a bigger water tank....As far as performance...log some passes at 30 plus psi....which is what you'll need to do to race any street cars over in MN...and add a 95 deg. day with with a tropical humidity level, that of a jungle and do back to back passes with no resting, cause there are 8 1200-1800hp cars trying to race you befor the cops show up......now tell me how warm your water is and what your temps are........Just a thought...but you can always pull over and change your water and ice it down right?

2001-WS6

No you're missing the point. There isn't a disadvantage to running a properly setup A2W system on the street. You said it couldn't be done and there are plenty of cars here that doing it on a regular basis with as much or more heat and humidity than you run in MN.

Did you run a heat exchanger with your A2W setup?

Rick

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

This is gay bickering back and forth......


MM has opened my eyes.

Ill be keeping the new A2W setup on my car and driving it everywhere....

You guys can keep your street racing storys...... Ill just send ya lots of lube and tissues when ya go to jail.......

Im passed all of that now and just want to enjoy it when i can, where ever i can....

Kyle

2001-WS6

See, your IC is 30x5x19 that is bigger than my griffin radiator. You've easily got more money in your IC alone than our TTi A2W kit cost. Good thing ATA is cheap.

Rick