CHRISPY

Just tossing some design ideas around in my head (slow at work today hehe)

My current ARE 360 shortblock (forged rods, stock compression ROSS pistons with valve reliefs, offset ground crank)
73cc 6L heads (9.2:1 compression factoring in my valve reliefs) 300 cfm intake, 230cfm exhaust at .600 lift
Good gaskets and ARP headstuds
226/240 114LSA XE-R cam with zero advance
Pacesetter 1 3/4 headers with custom mandrel 3 inch Ypipe into 3 inch cutout
42-50# injectors (LS1 edit tuning)
LS1 Vortech blower system (non aftercooled) pullied for 10#'s boost (probably a 2.75-3 inch blower pulley)
94 octane
dual intank pumps.
New Mcelod sintered iron disc clutch

6400rpm powerpeak probably a 6600rpm shiftpoint

What do you think it would make power wise? I am thinking around 550RWHP wouldn't be too difficult on 94 octane?
Would consider water/alky but would depend on what the IAT's look like with the G-trim with 2.75-3.00 inch blower pulley at 6500rpm.

Cheers,
Chris

BIGBOS

I think its possible easily through the 6-speed....

I say you should go with the T-trim, since you know you are going to want to be upgrading in the future, I got the D-1SC, but I should of started with the F1...

Unless you plan to keep it a nice streetable car for a while...

I think you can get 76cc for TEA heads, that would make compression close to 9:1....


Other than that, it should fly....

CHRISPY

Thanks

I think the lower comp TEA heads are for 4 inch plus bore not the 3.905 bore motors but I am not positive. I think the 9.5:1 is with the 3.905 bore.

I would consider the D1SC in a second if it wasnt for the pulley problems you and others are seeing. I wish they would fix those problems...

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Chris - 10psi non intercooled is going to be tough even at 9.2:1 IMO. One tank of bad gas and

Why not find a used ATI kit since you won't have to worry about tapping the pan for oil. If that SD tensioner works out that would be sweet. Plus, even the little P1SC is more capable then the G-trim.

CHRISPY

heheh I have thought about it but that damn tensioner fiasco freaks me out. PM me when you get a chance

BIGBOS

Well, I'm 100% positive that we are going to get my problem solved by next week, I'm taking my car back to SSracing this friday and I'm going to have Z9's work with it for a bit and have him make everything straight and do some testing on the street so I know that it works before we make it to the dyno....

I'm confident this time.....I just hope it doesn't go past 12-13psi otherwise its dual 340 time....

CHRISPY

Dual 340 is a good idea anyways I can't wait to see how it runs when all is done!!

RyanJ

vortech kits are better. plus...if you spin that G-trim up where is should be you'll make the power you want. Ask Steve H. He's probably the only one around here right at at or exceeding the G-Trim's capibilites.

S_J_H

sounds like a good combo.I think the cam is to big though.
You won't be able to run pump gas with no intercooler and no water/alky. Not without retarding the timing to the point you lose a ton of power.You will need one or the other or need to use race gas to make max power.
As far as tapping the pan, they supply a nice cutter that makes it a simple 15 minute job.
I think the ATI p and d trims will outflow a g-trim.
But the g-trim is easier to max out and has NO belt troubles even with a 2.5" pulley.
I will run mid-low 10's at 130 next year with a G-trim and Stock 98 cam.

CHRISPY

Why do you think the cam is too big?

I want to bleed off some boost while pushing the same cfm. That will drop my octane requirements slightly. I know an LT1 guy running 10#'s non intercooled through his Vortech T-trim and is making 560RWHP through full exhaust on pump gas with 9:1 comp. He is running a 230/244 cam AFAIK.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

LT1 and LS1 camshafts are different, LS1 cams are typically smaller.

CHRISPY

It is still a 360ci motor (versus his 355) with similar head flow numbers, intake and exhaust cc's

Also the peak on my chosen cam should be around 6400-6600rpm with the blower on the car. (I dont really mind if it peaks a little higher)

I am curious to see what the IAT's will look at non-intercooled. My little powerdyne with 5-6#'s boost saw 140 degrees IAT at WOT in the summer.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Why don't you try it so we actually find out, I don't think that cam would be shifted at 6500 I think you'd have to shift it a lot higher than that.

CHRISPY

For the most part intake valve closing point is the biggest determiner of power peak.

My 226/234 112LSA with no advance peaked at a lowly 6200rpm NA.

I may even try a 224/238 on 114LSA as well or the 226/240 on 114 with a few degrees advance ground in.

ChrisB

I would also agree that cam is to big - or at a minimum it has too much overlap. When in boost you don't really need/want overlap as you have positive pressure in the intake manifold - the amount that works is MUCH smaller than a NA/Nitrous setup.



And I know 3 people with S-trims making over 600rwhp and they all had 214/224 camshafts


With a bigger blower (T-trim, etc.) you *can* just pulley up - you will flow more CFM but you will be wasting a good deal of it also.

With the G-trim you are going to be maxing out what the blower can produce CFM wise - so you don't have any overhead to be "wasting" your massflow.

Here is a compressor map for the g-trim
http://www.slowcar.net/gtrim.png

it looks like it maxes out at around 60lb/min, which should be enough for your goal. I would go for a cam a good bit smaller - shoot for -8 or more degrees of overlap (negative) at 0.050. You want to pulley it so you hit your max impeller rpm at least right around your hp peak. It's okay to overspin it a few thousand rpm - you will pick up low end (and be faster at the track) - but at the big end you won't really flow more air, you will just heat it up more.

I would feel better with an s-trim - but for 550rwhp the g-trim should certainly be fine. I would just go with a nice aftermarket air/air intercooler and make all your tubing out of hard piping - that's going to be your focus, maximizing the efficiency of the setup.

The bonus of going with the smaller blower is going to be low end - especially with big pullies you should make boost quick and early, so it should be a blast to drive.

You might check into the price of doing the kit yourself - talk to chris sikora or someone about getting a custom bracket, pick up a g-trim or s-trim (if you go for s-trim get the s-trim HD as that has better bearings, and can be upgraded to a t-trim for a nominal fee).

Do your own piping, which is pretty easy, throw in the intercooler, BOV (stick the maf on the pressure side, after the bov), tune it, and you should be good to go!

Crunch

Well, since I currently have nearly the exact same setup your talking about, here's my take:
-Forget about trying to run without an aftercooler and 10PSI. You're asking for trouble, unless you plan on running race gas ALL the time.
-In my opinion, a camshaft with more than 224 duration will be too much. Plus, if you plan on revving to 6600RPMs, than I would choose a cam that peaked at 6600. Also, doesn't that cam (226/240) have a little bit of overlap? No need for that in a blown car.
-You'll need 50# injectors. Forget about 42's - they'll be maxed out in no time, I know.
-If you go with the Vortech V9 kit, buy it from T-Byrne. He has good customer service, no hassles, speedy delivery, and no B.S., and of course, the BEST prices. Make sure you talk to HIM (not one of the girls who answers the phone) about fitting the 2.75" pulley on your 1998 car. Its different for a 2001.
-I would get DUAL custom cutouts (exhaust dumps), one on each side of the Y-pipe. They act like header extensions and eliminate ALL resistance to air flow past the headers - Perfect for a blown car at the track. And for maximum airflow through the cat-back, forget about all the fancy mufflers and just get the SLP Loudmouth - simple and to the point. Yes it will be loud (but is this your daily driver?)
-You don't need dual in-tanks. One T-Rex and one Walbro 340 in-tank will be enough. I think the whole dual in-tank setup is overplayed. As long as the pumps are grounded correctly, fuel pressure will not be a problem.
-Your proposed Compression Ratio is fine. I am using 9.1:1. The 2.75 pulley, good flowing heads, a blower cam that peaks at your target shiftpoint, together with 94 octane, you should hit 550RWHP right on the head.
-Get a ShurFlow aftercooler pump. It flows way better than the little Vortech pump. ~$150 if I recall correctly.
-My setup is 535RWHP uncorrected on 93 octane, and we left a lot of room in the timing as well as fuel. We could have squeezed out more, but the current setup leaves me some room for bad gas, heat, etc. Also, I am NOT overspinning the blower. I used the Vortech impeller speed calculator, and I hit the nail right on the head, 65,001 RPMs exactly.
-The Vortech G-Trim might be "little", but with the small pulley, a good flow motor, and at least 3.73 gears, its hard to reckon with on the street. Not to mention it is an EXTREMELY well designed streetable kit - no belt slippage whatsoever, even at high boost.

Let me know if you need any more information at all from me. I'm not the mechanic who worked on the car but I tried my best to keep a knowledge base of what has been done on my car.
Best wishes.

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Vortech,or better yet a big inch solid roller.

BIGBOS

I would suggest trying 57# injectors by siemens, they are supposed to be pretty good, thats the farthest you can go with a high impediance...

I'm runnin the 42.5's on mine with a CAS regulator, Hot wire kit for the pump, a 255inline, and 255 intank...so far the FP is at 63psi, and it stays there for the whole run....we will see how it does when I see full boost..

S_J_H

That idea = less potential HP.

As ChrisB pointed out, the G-trim does not have the flow you can afford to just toss out the exhaust valve.
You are pretty much set with 60-70lbs of mass flow depending on how hard you want to spin your unit.
So why not optimize the small blower unit and pick parts that will compliment it?
I just ran almost 101mph 1/8th and just over 125mph 1/4 while lifting the heads with well over 3600lbs, 2.73 gears,2800 PI,STOCK 98 cam and stock heads that had nothing more than a cartridge roll blending!
That combo with no blower was lucky to run 104mph traps!

With that combo I saw just under 14psi at 6200rpm using a 2.5" pulley.
Ok, nuff with the mild combo.It's history.I am just using it to make a point.
I'm installing a 12bolt,full spooled with 3.42 gears.
27x11.5" hoosiers and dropping 200lbs off the car.
Heads are now actually "ported" but nothing major.
I'm installing a 4 gallon auxilliary fuel cell for straight 116 octane for track use.
I'm still keeping the stock 98 cam. Even though duration is low, it has no overlap to speak of and works nice with a 6200rpm shift. At 6200rpm my blower is at 68,400 rpm.
At 5000rpm it is already at 55,200 rpm.
I used to run a 2.85" pulley. I would see about 60lbs of maf flow at about 6100rpm which is just over 59,000 impeller rpm.
Right near Vortechs flow rating.
With the 2.5" pulley I am pegging my meter at 67+lbs/min at only 6000rpm.
Over spinning the g-trim produced a big air flow increase.
I realize this may be risky and I have taken steps to help with the loading, like a Mondo Bypass and secondary blower inlet throttle.I have a good 20 runs near 70,000 impeller rpm now.That little Vortech takes a licking...
My 93 5.0 on the bottle ran 10.20's with a almost 107mph 1/8th with only a 6000rpm shift point.
I am all about keeping rpms low for parts reliabilty and getting the blower flowing early in the rpm range.This is why I do some things that may seem out of the ordinary like run a stock cam advanced 3 degrees.
Your wallet will thank you in the long run.
Steve

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

Another thing to consider with a high duration/overlap cam you will not only be blowing air out the exhaust during overlap, but fuel as well.

At 550rwhp and 42-50lb injectors, I would be looking to increase efficency rather than decrease it.

I have tuned many stock cars having only a blower and headers making 500rwhp with approx 7lbs of boost.

I would say your 550rwhp goal will be no problem. (using a very mild cam)